Inching closer to The Hobbit film

[Sauron the White]

davem - when the Tolkien Estate permits the re-release of the LOTR books over a four year period with numerous tie-ins with the films, that is OFFICIAL INVOLVEMENT. In fact, thats about as official as you can get in the book and film business. This idea that they did not officially get involved in the films is a self serving fiction.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

All I want is to stop the double talk. When I bring up the fact that CT does not like the films I am told by others here that that is not true - that CT is silent and without a posive position. Then others want to use the opposition and feelings of CT to show that the films were not very good. You cannot have it both ways folks. Pick a side - any side - just stay on it and stay consistent.

I think you're rather misstating the arguments. In the first instance, the observation was that CRT/the Estate did nothing to block, oppose, or hinder the films, nor issue any statements/give interviews rubbishing them or doing anything to harm New Line's revenues. Quite to the contrary: CRT issued a press release saying that he had no problem with people liking the films.

The second instance was CRT forming a personal opinion (like any human being inevitably would) and then (God forbid!) sharing that opinion with family and friends- NOT the public. I did not use that fact to 'show that the films are not very good.' I brought it up to back up my assertion that any rights deal with PJ or Shaye is very, very unlikely when you challenged me on it. I think I now regret saying as much as I did in this public forum. I can't help but wonder if you're not simply miffed that Tolkien's son doesn't think as highly of the movies as you do.


BTW, the Estate only has a say in HarperCollins hardback covers. With paperbacks HC (and HM and Del Rey) can do what they like- which explains the horrible original Ballantines.

[Sauron the White]

WCH - I understand your position and respect it - I guess its pointless to keep going on this.

I do have one question which may open up something else. Let us assume that you are correct about the Estates limited powers in determining covers for some of the books. I do not know this as fact and it is a surprise to me since they seem to have all kinds of power about everything from illustrations to calendars. Buts lets assume you are correct. If they are indeed concerned about some of the past covers being horrible, why have they not done anything to get that changed so the problem does not happen again and again? I would guess that periodically the contract comes up for renewal and does not lock them in for eternity. And even if that were not the case I would also guess that HC wants to keep the Tolkien Estate reasonably happy since they are one of their largest long term earners. If they do not now have the power over covers they certainly have been in a position to obtain it.

I had read somewhere that in return for the Estates allowing movie stills to be used on the covers, they in turn received a larger participation in revenue from the sale of those books. Is that accurate based on what you know?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

I'm not privy to the contracts, of course, nor would anyone think it's any of my business. I do know that in publishing generally authors almost never have a say in cover design. The peculiar relationship between Unwin/HarperCollins and the Tolkiens stems from JRRT's personal relationship with Sir Stanley and Rayner, and Christopher and Rayner after that, and dates from Tolkien's having drawn the original Hobbit cover, and the core design of the original LR covers. I don't believe it's contractual or any more than an habitual courtesy- and covers UK hardbacks only.

I would be very surprised if HC offered additional compensation, since as it is Tolkien's estate enjoys the hugely lucrative half-profits deal JRRT struck, and I doubt any publisher would pay even more! Besides, HC's David Brawn quotes Christopher as saying "The Lord of the Rings would sell in a brown paper bag."


_____________

The Tolkien Trust

a quick Google turned these beneficiaries up in the first few pages:

Doctors Without Borders
Famine Action
The Simon Wiesenthal Center
Asylum Welcome
Landmine Action
The Woodland Trust
Womankind (equal rights and female-owned businesses in developing countries)
World Wildlife Foundation
Forced Migration Review
Create (fine arts for poor children)
University of Manitoba Medical School
Who Cares?
Mind (rights and independent living support for the mentally ill and handicapped).
Story Museum
Oxford Literary Festival
The Porch Stepping Stone Foundation (homeless relief)
Bath & North East Somerset Community Safety & Drugs Partnership
Royal National Institute of Blind People
St Peter’s Church, Eynsham (new roof)
The Big Issue Foundation (homeless relief)
Breakthrough (breast cancer research)
St Mary's Hall, Stonyhurst College
Prisoners' Education Trust

and 3400 more hits....

[Makar]

Sorry to interject myself into this back-and-forth, but I was wondering if there was a thread specifically about the TH sequel (name?) and exactly what PJ has access to? It seems from your discussion here that he would only have access to LotR and TH and thus the LotR prequel/TH sequel would be based on sketchy info at best? Any speculation about the events to be contained in the sequel, assuming that TH ends where the book does and is extra-long because of the portrayal of a reconstructed White Council vs Necromancer fight? Tolkien's time line from LotR gives a rough outline of what could appear in such a film:

1. Sauron returns to Mordor and declares himself
2. Gollum searching for the ring
3. Last White Council meeting
4. Aragorn and Gandalf meet
5. Aragorn's exploits under Thengel and Ecthelion
6. Aragorn and Arwen
7. Gollum meets Shelob
8. Balin in Moria
9. Saruman's use of the Orthanc stone and subsequent ensnaring

Not to mention the birth and childhood of the various hobbit and human characters from LotR

The above-mentioned events are disjointed and separated by many years... I am suspicious of such a film

[Sauron the White]

from Variety

Zaentz, New Line in court
'Rings' brings more rancor
By JANET SHPRINTZNew Line and Saul Zaentz are back in court again fighting over Zaentz's share of profits from the spectacularly successful "Lord of the Rings" trilogy.
In a suit filed Thursday in L.A. Superior Court, Zaentz alleges that New Line has refused to make records available to Zaentz's auditors and allow them to conduct an audit, making it impossible to verify whether his profit participation statements are accurate.

The complaint also notes that New Line and Zaentz are currently involved in arbitration. The nature of the arbitration is not specified, but the complaint alleges that New Line is attempting to leverage a settlement of some claims being arbitrated by refusing to perform its audit obligation until Zaentz agrees to resolve other claims in the arbitration.

The suit seeks unspecified money damages, as well as an accounting.

Zaentz first sued New Line in 2004, claiming he was owed $20 million under the license agreement, based on how gross receipts from foreign distributors were calculated. That suit settled the following year for an unspecified amount, but not before it was revealed in court papers that the octogenarian mogul already had collected $168 million from the three movies.

Zaentz purchased the rights to the "Lord of the Rings" novels, as well as "The Hobbit," in 1976 from United Artists. In 1997, Zaentz entered into a license agreement with Miramax to produce and distribute a "Rings" trilogy. Under the agreement, Zaentz would receive gross profit participation and the right to audit Miramax's books. Miramax assigned its rights under the agreement to New Line in 1998, and the terms of the license agreement with Zaentz remained the same.

In addition to the suits with Zaentz and a host of much smaller lawsuits, New Line also has been battling with director Peter Jackson over profit participation on the trilogy since he filed a lawsuit in 2005.

[davem]

Well, unless something is sorted out soon to get a Hobbit movie made there may not be a New Line Cinema for anyone to sue, as they seem incapable of making money out of anything that isn't Tolkien related....