Who would have fallen? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 12-23-2007, 07:34 AM

I'm not sure I go with the idea of the Ring 'choosing' targets, especially not having some sort of directional 'seduction ray' capability. To the extent it was 'sentient' at all it was pretty insectoid, and it never displayed any autonomous abilities other than "slip off finger".

The factor that matters, consistent throughout the book, lies in the individual: lust for power. This in a sense was strongest in Gnadalf, but tempered in his case by wisdom. It would have been weakest I think in the hobbits. Legolas was a Nandorized Sinda, not a Noldo- those techno-elves were alien to his mind. Gimli? maybe closer, but Dwarves are mentally tough, and have an overriding sense of duty and obligation. Which leaves Aragorn. Aragorn appears to have wisdom on a par with Gandalf and Elrond. Were he actually in the Smath Naur, though.....

Legate of Amon Lanc · 12-23-2007, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

I'm not sure I go with the idea of the Ring 'choosing' targets, especially not having some sort of directional 'seduction ray' capability. To the extent it was 'sentient' at all it was pretty insectoid, and it never displayed any autonomous abilities other than "slip off finger".

Well, not exactly. I believe there was some reason why Sméagol murdered Déagol and why it didn't simply stay with Deal and be happy for the moment. The Ring made people see things, made people think of it still, and that was not merely their own attachment to the Ring that would make them do it, that much is clear. And I am convinced it could aim its will on other people who were around (at least we know about a similar way it could "call" to the Nazgul).

William Cloud Hicklin · 12-23-2007, 08:12 AM

Call the Nazgul? I would say rather that it was a sort of omnidirectional 'evil minion' beacon, to which the Nazgul naturally were especially sensitive. The Ring exercised a pull on the Orcs who destroyed Isildur's army, even though they had no idea of it.

I don't think the Ring 'ordered' or 'directed' or 'persuaded' Smeagol to kill Deagol at all: Smeagol was an odious and greedy little swine who was especially susceptible to the Ring's broadcast temptation. I see no suggestion it 'chose' him over Deagol.

You're attributing to the Ring a calculating intelligence which far, far overstates its 'sentience'

Lyta_Underhill · 12-25-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Call the Nazgul? I would say rather that it was a sort of omnidirectional 'evil minion' beacon, to which the Nazgul naturally were especially sensitive. The Ring exercised a pull on the Orcs who destroyed Isildur's army, even though they had no idea of it.

The omnidirection evil minion beacon is an apt turn of phrase. After all, the Watcher in the Water seems to have singled Frodo out...the influence of the Ring perhaps vibrates on the frequency inhabited by the dark creatures of Middle Earth, a call they are specially attuned to. In a way, the Ring's sentience vs. simple nature begs a comparison to Evolution vs. Intelligent Design, but perhaps that is a road best left untrodden. It is easy to see intent in things that seem to 'act' in a certain way, however, and maybe the appearance of the Ring "choosing" a possible victim is merely the victim's susceptibility to the ever-present call it exerts on that subterranean frequency, which might even be likened to an ancient effect of Morgoth on those who followed him--Sauron, for one.

View Poll Results: Who would have been the first of the Fellowship to succumb to the One Ring?
Sam	0	0%
Merry	1	1.89%
Pippin	17	32.08%
Gandalf	7	13.21%
Aragorn	13	24.53%
Legolas	6	11.32%
Gimli	3	5.66%
Frodo	6	11.32%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

12-23-2007, 07:34 AM	#1
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	I'm not sure I go with the idea of the Ring 'choosing' targets, especially not having some sort of directional 'seduction ray' capability. To the extent it was 'sentient' at all it was pretty insectoid, and it never displayed any autonomous abilities other than "slip off finger". The factor that matters, consistent throughout the book, lies in the individual: lust for power. This in a sense was strongest in Gnadalf, but tempered in his case by wisdom. It would have been weakest I think in the hobbits. Legolas was a Nandorized Sinda, not a Noldo- those techno-elves were alien to his mind. Gimli? maybe closer, but Dwarves are mentally tough, and have an overriding sense of duty and obligation. Which leaves Aragorn. Aragorn appears to have wisdom on a par with Gandalf and Elrond. Were he actually in the Smath Naur, though..... __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

12-23-2007, 08:12 AM	#3
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Call the Nazgul? I would say rather that it was a sort of omnidirectional 'evil minion' beacon, to which the Nazgul naturally were especially sensitive. The Ring exercised a pull on the Orcs who destroyed Isildur's army, even though they had no idea of it. I don't think the Ring 'ordered' or 'directed' or 'persuaded' Smeagol to kill Deagol at all: Smeagol was an odious and greedy little swine who was especially susceptible to the Ring's broadcast temptation. I see no suggestion it 'chose' him over Deagol. You're attributing to the Ring a calculating intelligence which far, far overstates its 'sentience' __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.