Plagiarism? Or Simple Coincidence?

[Lord Halsar]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

If you look at just about any fantasy these days you'll find things that could be said to have come from Tolkien. It's not plagiarism, it's accident, inevitability or in some cases, lack of imagination, that's all. As for Rowling using the name 'Longbottom', well that's a common British surname

Exactly. That is why the thread is named "Plagiarism? OR Simple Coincidence?"

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Hmmm... I've never read Harry Pooter or Erigon(or however you spell it), but my friend, Laurinquë probably would have many things to ad don this thread since she has read those books and really the only reason why she is on the Downs or finished reading LotR is because I would have killed her if she didn't. (She happens to love them now, and is anxious to watch the PJ movies with me(not to make her have any bad rep, since she is one of my best friends))

[Bêthberry]

Perhaps a detailed explanation of plagiarism would be helpful--something even a bit more elaborated than a mere definition.

Wiki on plagiarism

Indiana University student FAQ on plagiarism

University of North Carolina Student fact sheet on the big P

I seem to recall a very rough rule of thumb was 'seven or more words' in a coherent phrase, so similarity of single words or names would not be in itself sufficient evidence to prove the dastardly deed.

Then again, in the artistic world, imitation is said to be evidence of the finest form of flattery.

[davem]

I'd suggest reading some Icelandic Sagas, the Eddas, the Kalevala, Beowulf & the Mabinogion if you want to see blatant plagiarism on Tolkien's part - in fact, some of it is so blatant you can't believe he had the gall - luckily for him, the stuff he stole was out of copyright....

Of course, when its Tolkien we talk about 'sources' & 'influences' & stuff.....

(check my sig...)

[Lindale]

There's this book I just saw this afternoon. Tales Before Tolkien, published by the same publisher as my LotR and Sil and Hobbit (the American). Contains bits of the Icelandic sagas, a really short version of the Ring of the Nibelungs, and stuff I don't remember. Somewhere in the back cover it says that the book
s content influenced Tolkien and will continue doing so the next generations of creative writers. The nature of the old epics, isn't it?

Also, an interesting notion in Lit is that There is Nothing New in under the Sun.

For the Hero, example Aragorn, it follows a certain archetype. More or less the same as the hero thing with, say, Arthas or Luke Skywalker or whatnot. Prophecy before birth and so on: it's in Joseph Campbell's book The Hero with a Thousand Faces. And so on with characters like Gandalf, Iluvatar, Elendil and the fall of Numenor, the list is endless. Of course the details vary. For example, the "goddess" of Aragorn is Arwen, whereas Luke doesn't have one exactly. But they both have the wise old bearded man for their mentors.

In the University of the Philippines, this is an example of Plagiarism:

Old pond — frogs jumped in — splash! (the original stuff by Basho, the haikuist)

which I change into, say,

The river -- frogs jumping -- the sound of the water

(Of course it's very crudely done, but I hope you see the point.)

[Lord Halsar]

Well, I meant that the Inheritance Trilogy is mostly along the plot of Star-Wars, not LotR. After all, a young boy from an unimpressive home has his uncle murdered, finds a mentor who is later slain, leaves home to join with a group of rebels against a widespread empire while learning that he possesses a great power. And in the second book he goes off to find a new mentor in a forested realm and learns that his father was a highly important villain during the rise of the "Empire."
The Inheritance Trilogy really strikes me to be of more likeness to Star-Wars when it comes to the MAIN storyline. The minor sequences are where the similarities to Tolkien's work begin.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Then again, in the artistic world, imitation is said to be evidence of the finest form of flattery.

It's the very soul of Post-modernism, innit?

Originally Posted by davem

I'd suggest reading some Icelandic Sagas, the Eddas, the Kalevala, Beowulf & the Mabinogion if you want to see blatant plagiarism on Tolkien's part - in fact, some of it is so blatant you can't believe he had the gall - luckily for him, the stuff he stole was out of copyright....

Yep.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Völuspá
11–12. Nýi and Niði, Norðri and Suðri, Austri and Vestri, Alþjófr, Dvalinn, Bífurr, Báfurr, Bömburr, Nóri, Án and Ánarr, Ái, Mjöðvitnir, Veigr and Gandalfr, Vindalfr, Þráinn, Þekkr and Þorinn, Þrór, Litr and Vitr, Nár and Nýráðr, Reginn and Ráðsviðr — now I have told the list of Dvergar right.
13–15. Fili, Kili, Fundinn, Náli, Hepti, Víli, Hanarr, Svíorr, {Nár and Náinn, Nípingr, Dáinn, Billingr, Brúni, Bíldr and Búri}, Frár, Hornbori, Frægr and Lóni, Aurvangr, Jari, Eikinskjaldi.
14–16. To tell the talk, the Dvergar in the generation of Dvalinn were [as] a race of [conquering] lions upto [the generation] of Lofarr. They sought settlements from the halls of stone [to] Aurvangr ('plot of mud') to Jöruvöllr. There was Draupnir and Dolgþrasir, Hár, Haugspori, Hlévangr, Glóinn, {Dóri, Óri, Dúfr, Andvari,} Skirvir, Virvir, Skáfiðr, Ái, Álfr and Yngvi, Eikinskjaldi, Fjalarr and Frosti, Finnr and Ginnarr. So [they will] remember while the eras [of humans] live, the list of the long descent [of the ancestors] of Lofarr.

Have a look at this on Wikipedia, it's interesting!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse_dwarves

[The Might]

I would have liked to have a Dwarf named Frosti in the books...

Also Frár from those in the list is stolen...