What was Shelob, and more importantly, what was Ungoliant? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

mormegil · 01-07-2008, 04:17 PM

I don't believe anywhere do we see that Ungoliant was with the other Maiar. Plus if I remember correctly I don't think any of the valar actually knew where she came from and they would know if she were vala or maia.

The Might · 01-07-2008, 04:46 PM

Well, she does seem to resemble the Balrogs in a way. Joins Melkor, comes down on Arda and then assumes a certain shape which she can afterwards no longer change.

Actually the whole idea about Tom Bombadil isn't that bad.
Because, if we think she wasn't an Ainu, then she could just as well be a discord in the music, something in M-e, but not really of M-e like Tom Bombadil.

And, very interestingly, in early writings Ungoliant is reffered to as Múru, which in Quenya would mean Primeval Night.
This does lead to some speculation that she was in a way also a spirit of nature, however a dark and evil one, whereas Tom Bombadil and Goldberry are positive ones.

01-07-2008, 04:17 PM	#1
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	I don't believe anywhere do we see that Ungoliant was with the other Maiar. Plus if I remember correctly I don't think any of the valar actually knew where she came from and they would know if she were vala or maia. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” Last edited by mormegil; 01-07-2008 at 04:22 PM.

01-07-2008, 04:46 PM	#2
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Well, she does seem to resemble the Balrogs in a way. Joins Melkor, comes down on Arda and then assumes a certain shape which she can afterwards no longer change. Actually the whole idea about Tom Bombadil isn't that bad. Because, if we think she wasn't an Ainu, then she could just as well be a discord in the music, something in M-e, but not really of M-e like Tom Bombadil. And, very interestingly, in early writings Ungoliant is reffered to as Múru, which in Quenya would mean Primeval Night. This does lead to some speculation that she was in a way also a spirit of nature, however a dark and evil one, whereas Tom Bombadil and Goldberry are positive ones. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown