COMPASS & LOTR comparison - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Sauron the White · 01-07-2008, 05:38 PM

from davem

Quote:

I thought I was going to see something of the same intellectual & philosophical depth as the books.

Well my intellectual friend, it seems that you have been badly misinformed about lots more than just this one film. Some other time, when we both have much more time, allow me to explain how a book is one thing while a film - any film - is quite another. If you expected one medium to give you some of the unique qualities found in the other medium, then you have been misinformed about the nature and limits of the medium. But we can discuss all that.

That 1944 LOTR film was tremendous. Thank you for the link on that one. It was really great and I enjoyed every second of it. Today I paid $8 to see SWEENEY TODD and really needed a good laugh.

I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

Gwathagor · 01-07-2008, 10:33 PM

Not 'friendship'?

Sauron the White · 01-08-2008, 08:10 AM

Gwathagor ... thanks for the correction on the CASABLANCA quote. Duly noted and corrected.

William Cloud Hicklin · 01-08-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

If you expected one medium to give you some of the unique qualities found in the other medium, then you have been misinformed about the nature and limits of the medium.

Then you have an unconscionably low opinion of the capacity of the cinematic medium.

Lalaith · 01-08-2008, 02:36 PM

Now THAT is a movie (1944 LotR). Peter Lorre as Gollum - so obvious when you think about it....

Sauron the White · 01-08-2008, 05:57 PM

from WCH

Quote:

Then you have an unconscionably low opinion of the capacity of the cinematic medium

I do not know exactly what that means. I have a very high opinion of what can be achieved if film. The key word being CAN. I do however believe more or less in Sturgeons Law - 90% of everything is crap.

How is that to be characterized as unconsionably low?

Bêthberry · 01-12-2008, 04:08 PM

I'm confused by the wording of this thread and the Books thread. Pullman Rips on LotR, others. This thread seems to be devoted to mere film popularity rather than a comparison of the two authors, although it's title suggests that comparison. So, taking a nod from this thread title, I'm posting here, but perhaps Esty might decide this belongs on the Books thread.

Having seen GC, I'm currently rereading HDM.

Northern Lights I still find very intriguing. My fascination lies with Pullman's creation of a world so like ours but existing under a different historical consequence. That for me is what makes the story compelling, not so much the ideology.

I remain just as appalled by Coulter and Asriel on this reading as I was on the first tread. Pullman's depiction of parents is intriguing--at once so very contemporary and yet also so reminiscent of early historical attitudes towards children as familial property. Both perspectives show parents oblivious of emotional responsibility to the child they brought into the world as they pursue their own ambitions and professional pursuits. Coulter and Asriel are both horrible, horrid and dispicable in their abuse of children, whether it's Coulter's kidnapping and experiments or Asriel's murder of Roger. (I have real problems accepting Asriel as a hero after what he does to Roger--how can I glorify a man who would bring down The Authority when he stoops to child murder to pursue his own ambitions? Is killing an innocent child (from a lower class) acceptable as a preamble to going after the big kahuna?)

How to contrast this depiction of parenting with parents in Tolkien's Middle-earth? The only two who come close in their arrogance, pride and conceit are Luthien's father Thingol and Turin's mother Morwen Eledhwen. Their willfulness is in large part responsible for the trials their children undergo but even they are not active child murderers.

Lyra's childhood at Jordan College is presented with Tom Sawyerish idyllic freedoms and a wistful delight in the rough and tumble play and wars of various childhood factions. Then in SK we get a different version of childhood as something akin to a Lord of the Flies viscious mob--children run amok when adults aren't there to supervise them.

Is this the difference between Pullman's view of human nature--something Darwinian--and Tolkien's--something less bestial? Is it evidence of Pullman's playing with alternate universes? Or is it simply an example of the inconsistency of his moral outlook?

01-07-2008, 10:33 PM	#2
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	Not 'friendship'? __________________ Stories and songs.

01-08-2008, 02:36 PM	#5
Lalaith Blithe Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,779	Now THAT is a movie (1944 LotR). Peter Lorre as Gollum - so obvious when you think about it.... __________________ Out went the candle, and we were left darkling

01-12-2008, 04:08 PM	#7
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 6,003	I'm confused by the wording of this thread and the Books thread. Pullman Rips on LotR, others. This thread seems to be devoted to mere film popularity rather than a comparison of the two authors, although it's title suggests that comparison. So, taking a nod from this thread title, I'm posting here, but perhaps Esty might decide this belongs on the Books thread. Having seen GC, I'm currently rereading HDM. Northern Lights I still find very intriguing. My fascination lies with Pullman's creation of a world so like ours but existing under a different historical consequence. That for me is what makes the story compelling, not so much the ideology. I remain just as appalled by Coulter and Asriel on this reading as I was on the first tread. Pullman's depiction of parents is intriguing--at once so very contemporary and yet also so reminiscent of early historical attitudes towards children as familial property. Both perspectives show parents oblivious of emotional responsibility to the child they brought into the world as they pursue their own ambitions and professional pursuits. Coulter and Asriel are both horrible, horrid and dispicable in their abuse of children, whether it's Coulter's kidnapping and experiments or Asriel's murder of Roger. (I have real problems accepting Asriel as a hero after what he does to Roger--how can I glorify a man who would bring down The Authority when he stoops to child murder to pursue his own ambitions? Is killing an innocent child (from a lower class) acceptable as a preamble to going after the big kahuna?) How to contrast this depiction of parenting with parents in Tolkien's Middle-earth? The only two who come close in their arrogance, pride and conceit are Luthien's father Thingol and Turin's mother Morwen Eledhwen. Their willfulness is in large part responsible for the trials their children undergo but even they are not active child murderers. Lyra's childhood at Jordan College is presented with Tom Sawyerish idyllic freedoms and a wistful delight in the rough and tumble play and wars of various childhood factions. Then in SK we get a different version of childhood as something akin to a Lord of the Flies viscious mob--children run amok when adults aren't there to supervise them. Is this the difference between Pullman's view of human nature--something Darwinian--and Tolkien's--something less bestial? Is it evidence of Pullman's playing with alternate universes? Or is it simply an example of the inconsistency of his moral outlook? __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. Last edited by Bêthberry; 01-12-2008 at 04:13 PM.

01-08-2008, 08:10 AM	#3
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	Gwathagor ... thanks for the correction on the CASABLANCA quote. Duly noted and corrected.