M-e objects - explained my science

[The Might]

Just took a look at that Wikipedia article, but I don't understand a thing

Well, alatar, can't say a specific object but pretty much any object.
I am still trying to find any information on how the Elessar might have worked.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by The Might

Well, alatar, can't say a specific object but pretty much any object.
I am still trying to find any information on how the Elessar might have worked.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about that shiny bit of green glass that Aragorn and Galadriel made much of (takes more than that and some ragtag to be a King )? What, to you, did it 'do?'

[obloquy]

Basically, this is all I was getting at:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

However, it must be understood that a change to one entangled particle does indeed affect the other instantaneously, but this is only known after the experiment is performed and notes are compared, therefore there is no way to actually send information faster than the speed of light.

Currently it cannot be used to transmit information, but a refined understanding and the advancement of the technologies used to observe particles might lead to an everyday application. The idea is just that, if it were possible to put this phenomenon to practical use, the results might eventually look something like Palantir communication.

I have always imagined that the magic of the Elves, the Istari, and various other embodied Ainur had perhaps more to do with their understanding of the natural world than any inexplicable powers. As a result of such a thorough understanding--and perhaps, in the case of the Ainur as co-creators, also a peculiar connection to the fundamental forces and materials of the physical world--they were capable of manipulating the material around them in ways Men could not understand.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by obloquy

Currently it cannot be used to transmit information, but a refined understanding and the advancement of the technologies used to observe particles might lead to an everyday application. The idea is just that, if it were possible to put this phenomenon to practical use, the results might eventually look something like Palantir communication.

Understood. But as you say, we may not know now what we can do with that information, nor if it's the 'real' thing that's going on. Read the article today regarding CERN and 'sparticles.' Even the CERN scientists aren't sure what they will find in the next experiment in April (ain't that cool!).

I have always imagined that the magic of the Elves, the Istari, and various other embodied Ainur had perhaps more to do with their understanding of the natural world than any inexplicable powers. As a result of such a thorough understanding--and perhaps, in the case of the Ainur as co-creators, also a peculiar connection to the fundamental forces and materials of the physical world--they were capable of manipulating the material around them in ways Men could not understand.

If you would have showed up at my door 30 years ago with today's technology (I use the iPhone as an example as I assume that everyone has heard of it), I would have assumed that you were definitely from the future with flying cars and all that. If you'd have been dressed as an elf, and I'd met you in the woods, I might have believed that Tolkien had documented a true history.

What does a Palantir do that a modern phone cannot? And if our technology is lacking, wait a day...

It truly is our 'deep' understanding of the nature of things that allows us (not me ) to create the miraculous artifacts that we have.

Have seen technicians in the neighborhood checking for natural gas leaks. These persons wave a stick over the ground, and that 'stick' sniffs for natural gas. An audible tone helps locate the source of the leak (when present). No, this is not dowsing , but spectroscopy (I think). Air passes through a sensitive detector, and when the right chemical is found...

Find a smell - pheromone? - distinctive to orcs. Place a detector within your sword along with some LED lights and Bingo! You get Sting.

[obloquy]

Your points are valid, of course. However, unless the Palantiri were utilizing a communications satellite their explanation as a scientific device is at least anachronistic. My point was that the Elves and Ainur can influence and utilize the natural world without the requisite technology because of their absolute knowledge of its origins and makeup.

[The Might]

The Elessar, at least the original one made in Gondolin that trapped sunlight in it and was said to enable people looking through it to see the old as young again and also to heal.
I doubt the first part can be really explained by science but what about the second part?

Do solar rays have healing powers?
Can a gem refract the light in such a way to make this possible?
No idea, maybe you can think of something.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by The Might

The Elessar, at least the original one made in Gondolin that trapped sunlight in it and was said to enable people looking through it to see the old as young again and also to heal.
I doubt the first part can be really explained by science but what about the second part?

Does the person viewed through the Elessar 'become' young or merely 'appear' young? Or does the wearer appear younger?

Regarding healing, I'd remembered an article from way back regarding that Star Trek medical thingy that looked like a salt shaker that the doctor would wave over a person and s/he'd be healed. Here are articles from the years 2004 and even better from 2007. Give it time; they'll get there.

Do solar rays have healing powers?

Only for Superman; for the rest of us, they are extremely destructive.

Can a gem refract the light in such a way to make this possible?
No idea, maybe you can think of something.

You could make it look like a gem to keep your competitors guessing. And I'd like to see more technological innovation that 'looked nice' than looking like it was made in someone's garage.

Originally Posted by Meriadoc1961

Gandalf's lighting of his wand could be produced with batteries and a bulb.

Kinda takes the magic out of it.

[Eönwë]

Well, the problem is, he could just change things at an atomic level. By saying

"Naur an edraith ammen! Naur dan i ngaurhoth!"

in a certain tone he could cause certain vibrations which at an atomic level cause hydrogen atoms to combust in the nearest available place. You just don't know with wizards.

Basically, if you go down to an atomic level, everything in ME can be explained by science. Obviously the Ainur would know how to harness it, as they took part in creating it. This would explain their powers. Knowledge is power. Basically, the Ainu did not use magic, as such, they just knew how to alter things and go between the rules of science. Take Balrogs, for eample. They may have taken part in singing the part of the Music about fire, so they know everything that they made, so they can control fire, to an extent. This might explain why some Ainur have different "powers".

Before you finish reading this post, just spare a thougt for quantum fluctuation, the theory that particles can appear out of nothing, and think, if that is possible, what can't be.

[Meriadoc1961]

This is an interesting topic and one that I had just recently been musing about myself.

When I first read of the Palantir back in 1974 it seemed magical, even though we did have telephones and television, but some 34 years removed it seems more of a technological innovation similar to the iPhone, as has been mentioned.

I really liked the explanation for Sting.

The Mirror of Gladriel has some kind of physics application and usage beyond my knowledge as it could view events from the past, the present, and into possible futures.

Gandalf's lighting of his wand could be produced with batteries and a bulb.

Merry