Gollum do you pity him or hate him?

[Yavanna Kementari]

Gollum is a sneaky little dart. But if you were in Frodo or Bilbo's place would you pity the poor creature or simply slay him? And how would you justify either action?
I used to be in Gollums shoes. Loving something That I couldn't have or liking something that was going to harm me. How about you?

[Manwe Sulimo]

Pity. 'Cause I'm a compassionate son of a gun.

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

I'd pity him. Actually, I might even have sympathy for him. Sometimes I feel like he does, but I won't get into that. I would definately not slay him. Besides, there is no way it could be justified. I'd try to help him and make friends with him. Besides, how could I kill him, I really don't think anyone deserves to die. I admire gollum too, he's very smart and cunning, very sly; instead of sneaky.

I would take pity on him, why cause I know what its like to be cast out like that ;_; oh well, he redems himself in the end, kinda.

[Inwe]

I'd pity him.I've always liked Gollum, ever since I was 3 years old and watching the Hobbit cartoon....I don't think I could kill anyone or anything very easily...I have a hard time with fly swatters. It seems like he'd be a good person to have around, he can sneak around and spy on things, so you'd know what you're walking into.I don't know, I just like Gollum for some reason. It would be really hard not to pity him, the way he acts and looks and talks. Well, I've bored you all to death,I bet, so I'll shut up now.

[Coral]

I'd help him, he always seemed so helpless and confused to me...In fact I found myself hoping he would live and find some sort of redemption while reading the books...

[ December 30, 2002: Message edited by: Coral ]

[Yavanna Kementari]

Thanks for your replies guys keep'em coming. Alot of you are very compassionate.. something not found in an abundance any more.
It's seems that every one some how can liken themselves unto even the lowliest of creatures. Now think of that one person at school that every one picks on and hurts every day and pretend they are Gollum. A challenge if I might say, are you up for it?
Treat and pity them out wardly. Would you stick up for Gollum if some one were hurting him? Try it on, that person.. that "Gollum".
A kind thing spoken and a lesson learned you just may actually SAVE that Gollum from their END. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I challenge you Please don't forget to post if you meet my challenge and any posts are welcome [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] NAMARIE

[Yavanna Kementari]

Just me again I;m trying to get my avatar to show up hope it works g'night

i pitty Smeagol, i dont pitty Gollum.

[Farrehn]

All those I have met really hate the slimy little stinker, Gollum. But for some strange reason, I thought he was pretty cool. Though if I was in the position of Frodo or Bilbo, I have to say both! If I were in Bilbo's position, I would have killed him. Now don't get me wrong, I like the little creep and I have an extremely compassionate heart, especially for those in need. But freom a defensive standpoint, as in Bilbo's position, i think it would have been a wiser choice to kill a viper, before it turns and bites your heel. At that point, Gollum was seaking Bilbo and the Ring out to take back his Preciouse. . . and I doubt Gollum would have showed Bilbo any compassion, seeing as he was going to get the Ring so he could come and kill Bilbo. That is why I would have killed him in that situation.
But with Frodo, it would be quite different. Frodo knew the effects of the Ring, and out of anyone, could help Gollum the best. Before,. Bilbo did not know or could have done anything to help Gollum, save to end his misery. But Frodo was the master of the Ring, or at least it's bearer, and Gollum was proving himself helpless and in need of someone to rescue him. Gollum, when Frodo had him, was willing to help, and in the movie was actually turning out far better than before! If only Frodo would have kept Gollum's trust, then Im sure he would have come back. Besides, Frodo needed to believe he could forget the Ring, and return to a semi-normal life. So yeah, that's what I would have done. . . gee, sorry it's so long! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Yavanna Kementari]

No need to appologisw for lon posts. It's an in depth challenging topic and takes some time to explain. Thank you for posting [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Gorwingel]

I am sorry, but unlike everyone else who is so compassionate, I have to agree with Sam, I don't pity him. Even though the Ring would probably never have been distroyed if it was not for him, I still think he should have been killed. Because he was very tricky. It would have been great if he could have been helped, and I would have loved to help him, but I just do not think it would be possible. Sorry. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[Meela]

i pity him in a way

[Meela]

i think its because of the song he sang in ttt at the pool where faramir took the hobbits... something about the pool and how its nice and cool? it was so cute!

but i would pity him anyway

[Marsyas]

I do pity him because of what the ring has done to him, but in a sick kind of way I think he's one of my favorite character's. I wouldn't kill Gollum because of that. But if I did hate him, or dislike him, I would 'kill' him with kindness. You know, be overly nice and polite until it made him crazy......er.... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I pity him, as a vegan, I have much compassion for all living things. And as Smeagol he's just so darn cute. How could you kill the little guy?

i'm with sam, i wouldn't have trusted him, but i wouldn't have killed him either. he was a liar, and a sneak. but frodo knew the pain that the ring caused and that's probably the main reason he had pity for gollum. but as we see in the end, campassion was the only way the ring could have been destroyed, if you think about it... of course frodo couldn't destroy it, it would have destroyed him, in a way it did. but it is cool how both bilbo and frodo's pity made it possible for the good guys to win...

[nuguernachil]

i do feel sorry for him. it was entirely the fault of the ring that he ended up the way he was; if deagol hadn't found the stupid thing he would have lived out his happy hobbit life without ever worrying about sauron or mordor or any more of that evilish junk. he's more of a victim than a criminal.

[Orual]

I agree with Inwe. I do pity Gollum, and I wouldn't have killed him both because of that and because it's just not me. I can hardly bring myself to kill mosquitos, but after the West Nile outbreak it hasn't been as hard...

Gollum is, in essence, a drug addict, but an unknowing drug addict. He didn't know what the Ring was or what it would do to him; there weren't any "Just say NO to the Ring of Power" public service announcements. In some measure, he was a victim of circumstances. However, like Sam, I would certainly be wary around him and not trust him for a split-second, not as far as I could throw him. I pity him as a ruined, tortured creature, but that pity certainly wouldn't take me far enough to trust him.

~*~Orual~*~

[Durelin]

People think I'm wierd, even heartless when I say that i can find very little pity for Gollum. I am definetly with Sam. GO SAM! "Tie him up and leave him here!" I like that. "No, that would kill us!" I believe that is the point! I believe people should stop complaining about how you "feel like Gollum" because you have been outcast. Self pity leads you to an even more pitiful life than if you had put up with it and lived on doing your best. That's life, I've always been an outcast, but I have come to just live with that, I know I'm better than those who have outcasted me, partly because I do not outcast people, you should know that too. Smeagol was not able to do that, he was already a pretty corrupt person before the ring came to him. I mean, he killed his cousin before it ever had a chance to corrupt him.

[ December 30, 2002: Message edited by: Durelin ]

[Orual]

I think that even Sam pitied Gollum, to some extent. When he had a chance to kill Gollum, he didn't. It would have been justified--Gollum had just attacked them, after betraying them and leading them to what he had hoped would be certain death--but he didn't. So I think that his early "tie him up and leave him here" was simply mistrust rather than a lack of pity.

~*~Orual~*~

[Eruwen]

Well, if I came to face with a skitzsophrenic freaky Hobbit, I would back away slowly, and run as far as I could away from him. I would pity him afterwords though. But I wouldn't kill him. Weird as he is, you can't kill an awesome voice like that.

[Durelin]

I don't think he wanted to defy Frodo, you know how obedient Sam was to Frodo.

[Orual]

LoL, Eruwen! You're right! That's probably what I would end up doing. Except I wouldn't be backing up slowly, I'd be turning around and running as fast as my legs could carry me. Aiee!

Durelin, I agree that that's probably why Sam didn't kill Gollum at the beginning--you know, shoot first and ask questions later. But I stand firm in my opinion that after he saw Gollum, and saw what was happening to Frodo, and made the connection between the two, he did pity Gollum. He knew who Frodo was from long before the Ring came to him, and now he saw what Frodo was becoming. He could try to imagine what Gollum had been before the Ring had come to him. Like I said, he had the chance to kill Gollum in circumstances that would have justified it, but he didn't. So I think that in the end, it was more than obedience to Frodo that kept Sam from killing Gollum.

~*~Orual~*~

[Durelin]

Yeah, Sam might have pitied him, but I don't! Call me cruel, I don't give. Gollum is a worthless little WORM! Sorry, got carried away.

[Carlas]

I think hes cute but if i were in Frodos shoes(well he doesnt have shoes, but you get the idea), id kill him, so Sauron would rule middle-earth.Some hero id be [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[Orual]

Hindsight is 20/20, Carlas...most of us would probably have stabbed him, wham bam thank you ma'am, problem solved except it wouldn't be. As we sit here in front of our computers we've read the end of Return of the King, and know what a pivotal role Gollum played in the destruction of the Ring. But Frodo didn't. Sam didn't. Gollum didn't. If Frodo had killed Gollum, it wouldn't have been because he didn't want the Ring destroyed...he wouldn't have known that it would indeed be Gollum who was finally the one who secured Sauron's demise. Ironic, isn't it?

Heh, that's cool, Durelin, I was just standing up for my Sam. I can understand why you feel that way, and at certain points in the book I do too. But since hindsight is indeed 20/20, all in all I pity him.

~*~Orual~*~

[Yavanna Kementari]

Hallo It's me again I love all of your replies, and thankyou so much for them. I believe what Orual said is right; Hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20 and too bad it is. How many times in your life would you like to go back and change something in your life. Maybe say Good bye one last time to some one in the Shire before you left, Give Farmer Maggot and hand when you see his back is hurtin' him. Sadly what has been done has been done . But through this You have learned to enjoy every moment with the ones you love as though they were your last. And to be kind to others to keep your own conscience clear. Simple things like this can make all the difference. As I have said try to put this into a perspective. The Gollums that you see in every day life may have the power one day to help or ruin your Quest. So before you make the choice to slay some one,whether it be by words or literally tying him up and leaving him there, [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] think of how it is going to affect the rest of your life. You can never change what has been done and it may take a lifetime to try to aright it!! At any rate please keep your thoughts coming ALL thoughts are appreciated and welcome [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] and once again THANKYOU for your time and input [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Lossentilien]

I think we should remember that Gollum is the evil side of Smeagol, so I pity Smeagol, cause he's got this inner battle with Gollum that he is losing. He does try to stand up to Gollum, the scene in TTT where he thinks he's won was so touching. He was just so happy that he was free, all the bad stuff wasn't really his fault cause Gollum was making him do it, and made him believe that he was alone and no-one cared for him. He was distraught about the thought of killing Frodo, so Gollum convinced him to get "her" to do it, the only reason he gave in was the mention of the ring. Again, his desire for it is driving him, he does not think rationally, as his need for it is blinding.

[Inwe]

Hi! It's me AGAIN!!!! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I kind of agree with al of you [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] I really like Smeagol, but his Gollum side is kinda freaky
I probably wouldn't have the heart to kill anything, unless it was a HUGE matter and something good would come of it. But I can see why Sam wanted to keep him tied up, too. I know everyone's already said all of this, but I felt like typing it all over again. Well, in the books, whenever I thought that they should kill Gollum, I tried to put myself in his place, and what he was doing sounded like a good idea to him. And, Gollum was kind of controlling Smeagol, and it was too hard for him to resist. And, I have to admit, he is so cute! How he talks, I mean, when he is smeagol. Anyway, I'll shut up now.

As my personal opinion-I neither pity nor hate him, but if I was Frodo or Bilbo I think my answer would probably be slightly different.

Taking it from Frodo's position, I would pity him. Having known all his previous history from Gandalf, I would sympathise with his circumstances. Living almost all your life being despised is not easy, especially when all the time you're being mentally tortured. I think Frodo understands what Sméagol (or Gollum) has had to live through, and as the ring begins to take hold of Frodo, he understands more and more the "Gollum" side of him too.

But, if I were taking the position of Bilbo, I think I wouldn't pity him, but I wouldn't necessarily want to slay him (but that would probably be more for the fact that if I was Bilbo I would be frightened of what he might want to do to me if I tried!). I think this because Tolkien seems to prtray him in a different light in The Hobbit when Bilbo meets him-he meets the Gollum side and not the Sméagol side. Therefore, I dont think there is particularly much to pity because Gollum deserves and appears to like his circumstances. All Bilbo sees him as is a "nasty creature that want to eat me".

If it was me then I would probably sympathise with him-but not pity him. I dont know why, but I just dont think pity is appropriate. I could relate to some of his circumstances, and I daresay I would like him. Well, the Sméagol side at least!

So all in all, I suppose I wouldnt want to kill him-from anyone's point of view-but I wouldnt necessarily like him if I was in certain characters positions either.

sorry this dragged on so much! Namaarie!

[Arien]

I didn't really pity at first....but then I felt really sorry for him and what he had been through. His character grew on me and I suppose I came to love him in the end (no, not in that way Andrew)....I was sad when he died....*sniff* [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] *remebers day she first read that page in RotK*

[red]

I have zero pity for that creature. If you read through The Shadow of the Past, you will see that Sméagol was evil from the beginning. He murdered before he ever touched the Ring. Both Frodo and Bilbo handled the Ring for years before it even started bringing out any malicious intent. No, Gollum was irredeemable because there was never any good to begin with.

Gollum was pitiable, but he ended in persistent wickedness, and the fact that this worked good was no credit to him. ... The domination of the Ring was much too strong for the mean soul of Sméagol. But he would have never had to endure it if he had not become a mean sort of thief before it crossed his path. (emphasis mine) -The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien #181

(credit to Sharkû for helping find the quotes)

[ January 03, 2003: Message edited by: red ]

[Daewen]

i pity him. most defenatly pity him

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Come on red, you have no pity for him? Well, that's fine I guess, but I have to disagree with what you said. I really dont think he was evil before the ring came along. When you said

you will see that Sméagol was evil from the beginning.

Do you mean from birth or from the moment the ring was found by Deagol?

before he ever touched the Ring

Well that, I really have to disagree with. The ring has powers; it has a lure, and it can be extremely strong at times. What about Boromir? He almost killed Frodo before he touched the ri- no, actually he never touched the ring. So you can't tell me that no one wants the ring until you touch it. It doesn't matter. Just to be around it, to see it, to even know about it, it's enough to make a person do anything to get it. Just look at Saruman. He never touched it, he only heard about it and he bread armies to search for it. He even tried to make one more powerful. And Bilbo and Frodo never had to do anything to get it. Bilbo came across it by accident or the ring chose him. He did not have to kill anybody for it or take or steal it. Frodo inherited it, he also did not have to do anything to get it. And he even had knowledge of the ring. And besides, Bilbo might have killed for the ring. What if Gollum had the nerve enough to go himself and see what Bilbo's got in his pocketses? Bilbo didn't even put it on yet he was extremely reluctant to even let Gollum know he had the ring.

My point is that Smeagol was not evil before the ring, therefore, I think that if you didn't have pity because you thought he was evil, you should because he was not evil. But if you still have no pity, that's fine with me.

[ January 03, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[Faye Took]

I'd say, I would pity him. I don't kill things, not even spiders that crawl around on the walls, or even flies if they get into the house! I just can't. LoL.

[Daewen]

I agree with Willie. I mean, come on, even Sauron wasn't evil to begin with...and that's saying something. I honestly feel sorry for the poor guy. Especially since he tried so hard to overcome the ring, but just couldn't...although I don't think its possible for him to be positivly cured from it as long as it still existed. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[red]

People, I'm not asking you to take my word for the fact that Gollum was no good before he got the Ring. Did you read the quote I supplied? Those are Tolkien's words.

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

I read your quote before and I read it again. Nowhere does it say he was evil before the ring. Mean is not evil. Tell me, have you ever been mean to someone? Probably yes, but that does not mean that you are evil. He may have been mean, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was evil.

You said

there was never any good to begin with.

That, is not true. You can't say that because you don't know it. Tolkiens never said that he was no good before the ring. I mean, he actually might have been, but then again, he might not have. No one knows. We can't be sure, but most likely he wasn't always mean and most likely, there was good. How would he even have a friend in the first place if he was mean all the time and evil? I really don't think that Smeagol was evil, or always mean for that matter.

But anyways, do you still not pity him?

[red]

Read The Letters. Lots of gems of insight in there. Also, look up "mean" in the dictionary. I hardly think Tolkien meant Gollum simply stole candy from his little sister. Tolkien called him "mean and greedy" several times. I'm thinking he was leaning more toward the "characterized by petty selfishness or malice" and "below the normal standards of human decency and dignity" definitions. That sure sounds evil to me - which is also one to look up: "1 a: morally reprehensible : SINFUL, WICKED <an evil impulse> b: arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a man of evil reputation>". There we have it. Evil Gollum.

He also called Déagol mean and greedy. Birds of a feather... to answer your "How would he even have a friend in the first place..." question.