Musical instruments in Middle-earth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

William Cloud Hicklin · 01-31-2008, 02:28 AM

The organ is in fact very old- the name comes from the Romans (organum), who got the instrument from the Hellenistic Greeks (the traditional inventor was Ctesibius of Alexandria, 3rd century BC). There are organs still in existence that date from the early 1400's- that's earlier by a century than fiddles and viols, and 300 years older than the clarinet.

Still, the Music says that it was the *voices* of the Ainur, *like unto* various instruments, not that such instruments were actually present. This doesn't necessarily mean that the Ainur opened their mouths and viol-sounds came out: it's a simile, rather like saying "Bob Dylan's voice is like unto a toad being sandpapered to death."

William Cloud Hicklin · 01-31-2008, 02:39 AM

Quote:

viols, the latter being described as the size of modern cellos

In other words, the bass viola da gamba.

skip spence · 01-31-2008, 02:50 AM

Don't think anyone mentioned Tuor and his harp.

In UT he plays his harp and sings up on a mountain, where he's hiding from his enemies. Heedless of the danger, he loses himself in the music and a stream bubbles up beneath his feet, rushing down the hill. He (correctly) takes this as a sign and it leads him to the gate of noldor, and eventually to Vinyamar and Ulmo.

skip spence · 01-31-2008, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

"Bob Dylan's voice is like unto a toad being sandpapered to death."

Hey, what did you say about Bob Dylan!?

He's def up there with Maglor and Daeron when it comes to singing ablility.

Estelyn Telcontar · 01-31-2008, 08:34 AM

skip, thanks for reminding me of that! I haven't read the Tuor story in awhile, though I have been skimming many passages of Sil, UT, HoME etc. I'll remedy that omission to include the reference!

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hickli

Still, the Music says that it was the *voices* of the Ainur, *like unto* various instruments, not that such instruments were actually present. This doesn't necessarily mean that the Ainur opened their mouths and viol-sounds came out: it's a simile, rather like saying "Bob Dylan's voice is like unto a toad being sandpapered to death."

That's exactly what I meant! And thanks for the amusing use of simile!

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 01-31-2008, 09:32 AM

I'm not sure at the moment because I don't have my copy of TH with me, but didn't a couple of the dwarves have violins or something to that sort? I know that Thorin played a harp.

Ibrîniðilpathânezel · 01-31-2008, 09:34 AM

Quite true, although in order for the writer -- presumably an Elf -- to make the comparison, there had to be extant instruments in his own time, or nobody reading what he wrote would understand what he was talking about.

Estelyn Telcontar · 01-31-2008, 03:59 PM

TGEW, the Dwarves in The Hobbit played: harp, drum, flutes, fiddles, clarinets, and viols. I think those are the most different instruments mentioned in any one passage of Tolkien's works.

Bêthberry · 01-31-2008, 08:30 PM

May one offer examples of situations in which instrumental music is not named, although possibly it might be expected? Not much has yet been said about LotR.

When women and children return to Gondor in preparation for the coronation of the King:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Steward and The King

. . . and from Dol Amroth came the harpers that harped most skilfully in all the land; and there were players upon viols and and upon flutes and upon horns of silver, and clear-voiced singers from the vales of Lebennin.

Trumpets herald the arrival of the Steward with the white rod of his office which he offers up to Aragorn. And trumpets of course announce the Coronation:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Steward and The King

'Behold the King!'
And in that moment all the trumpets were blown, and the King Elessar went forth and came to the barrier, and Hurin of theKeys thrust it back; and amid the music of harp and of viol and of flute and the singing of clear voices the King passed through the flower-laden streets.

Yet amidst all this pomp and circumstance there is one more ceremony, one long-awaited, and one which banishes all fear of the night. The Nightengale arrives and is wedded to the King, yet not one mention is made of music of any sort, nary a trumpet or horn, let alone viols and harps and flutes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Steward and The King

Then the King welcomed his guests, and they alighted; and Elrond surrended the sceptre, and laid the hand of his daughter in the hand of the King, and together they went up into the High City, and all the stars flowered in the sky. And Aragorn the King Elessar wedded Arwen Undomiel in the City of the Kings upon the day of Midsummer, and the tale of their long waiting and labours was come to fulfilment.

Granted of course that this wedding is highly symbolic, yet it is bereft of music, unless one counts the flowering of the stars as the music of the spheres.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 01-31-2008, 08:32 PM

Thanks for the clarity! Of course I personally think that horns are musical instruments in cases, not in Boromir's case though to name an example.

Estelyn Telcontar · 02-29-2008, 07:48 AM

I'm now looking for recordings to 'illustrate', for lack of another word, my lecture. Unfortunately, though the Tolkien Ensemble has completed its LotR project, they have not composed music to the Hobbit songs, as far as I know. I do have the BBC dramatization of The Hobbit, so have heard its take on the music of the Dwarves. Do any of you know of other renditions? Does the animated Hobbit movie show their instruments/have a version of their playing and singing?

Preparing this topic is a very interesting project! As I have time, I'll post some of my discoveries by and by.

Snowdog · 09-13-2010, 06:30 PM

This is just my brain interpreting things as I read them, but with the creation of Middle Earth based on music of the Ainur, I just assumed that the various races had an inbred ability to appreciate, and would make music using any number of musical instruments that suits their fancy.

And I think the most orc-ish song has to be AC/DC's Dirty Deeds.

01-31-2008, 02:28 AM	#1
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	The organ is in fact very old- the name comes from the Romans (organum), who got the instrument from the Hellenistic Greeks (the traditional inventor was Ctesibius of Alexandria, 3rd century BC). There are organs still in existence that date from the early 1400's- that's earlier by a century than fiddles and viols, and 300 years older than the clarinet. Still, the Music says that it was the voices of the Ainur, like unto various instruments, not that such instruments were actually present. This doesn't necessarily mean that the Ainur opened their mouths and viol-sounds came out: it's a simile, rather like saying "Bob Dylan's voice is like unto a toad being sandpapered to death." __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

01-31-2008, 09:32 AM	#6
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	I'm not sure at the moment because I don't have my copy of TH with me, but didn't a couple of the dwarves have violins or something to that sort? I know that Thorin played a harp. __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

01-31-2008, 09:34 AM	#7
Ibrîniðilpathânezel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the Helcaraxe Posts: 733	Quite true, although in order for the writer -- presumably an Elf -- to make the comparison, there had to be extant instruments in his own time, or nobody reading what he wrote would understand what he was talking about. __________________ Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :) Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill

01-31-2008, 03:59 PM	#8
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	TGEW, the Dwarves in The Hobbit played: harp, drum, flutes, fiddles, clarinets, and viols. I think those are the most different instruments mentioned in any one passage of Tolkien's works. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

01-31-2008, 08:32 PM	#10
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	Thanks for the clarity! Of course I personally think that horns are musical instruments in cases, not in Boromir's case though to name an example. __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

01-31-2008, 02:50 AM	#3
skip spence shadow of a doubt Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the streets Posts: 1,125	Don't think anyone mentioned Tuor and his harp. In UT he plays his harp and sings up on a mountain, where he's hiding from his enemies. Heedless of the danger, he loses himself in the music and a stream bubbles up beneath his feet, rushing down the hill. He (correctly) takes this as a sign and it leads him to the gate of noldor, and eventually to Vinyamar and Ulmo.

02-29-2008, 07:48 AM	#11
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	I'm now looking for recordings to 'illustrate', for lack of another word, my lecture. Unfortunately, though the Tolkien Ensemble has completed its LotR project, they have not composed music to the Hobbit songs, as far as I know. I do have the BBC dramatization of The Hobbit, so have heard its take on the music of the Dwarves. Do any of you know of other renditions? Does the animated Hobbit movie show their instruments/have a version of their playing and singing? Preparing this topic is a very interesting project! As I have time, I'll post some of my discoveries by and by. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

09-13-2010, 06:30 PM	#12
Snowdog Emperor of the South Pole Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Western Shore of Lake Evendim Posts: 662	This is just my brain interpreting things as I read them, but with the creation of Middle Earth based on music of the Ainur, I just assumed that the various races had an inbred ability to appreciate, and would make music using any number of musical instruments that suits their fancy. And I think the most orc-ish song has to be AC/DC's Dirty Deeds.