The Tolkien Coming of Age Club 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ibrîniðilpathânezel · 02-03-2008, 03:24 PM

Y'know, that's one of the things I always found odd about the mention of organs in the Ainulindale. It's the only keyboard instrument I can recall being mentioned anywhere in Tolkien's work, and it seems quite strangely anachronistic. Myself, I began with organ and piano, then voice, guitar, harp, flute... oh, a lot of instruments. It was encouraged for anyone going into conducting or composition. Most I have only dabbled with, the understand how they are played and how they make their individual sounds, but I've managed proficiency with a fair number. A while back, someone asked me why I never used saxophone in my Tolkien-inspired orchestral works, and I couldn't quite get them to understand that I found it much too "modern" sounding to fit what I heard in my head. Wasn't even invented until the mid-1800s, if I recall correctly, so no matter what, I just couldn't hear a sax being played in, say, Rivendell, or Gondolin, or Valinor. Maybe someone might be wailing on a sax in Mordor...

mark12_30 · 02-03-2008, 05:25 PM

Esty, sounds like a link to your paper-development thread would be a good idea. Hint.

Nogrod · 02-04-2008, 02:02 AM

I do agree with Rikae and yourself that being able to listen to your compositions played with real instruments would be great. That MIDI-sound is just plain awful at worst and being just a lot less than the real thing at best (the harp wasn't so bad).

The pics you had there reminded me of the old Deutsche Grammophone records... especially those with the yellow lines around the picture.

This is surely a matter of taste and I listened to only a small sample of your works - and this might even be a matter of principle to you - but I'll say it still. Don't be afraid of dissonance! Try it and you'll like it!

Think of some of the great modern composers like Pärt or Rautavaara who make the most astonishingly beautiful music where the beauty is enhanced or heightened to a new level with a creative use of dissonance.

But hats off to you. I really liked what I heard.

Ibrîniðilpathânezel · 02-04-2008, 09:18 AM

Actually, the "instruments" are all wav samples of actual instruments, and I am not terribly pleased with some, because whoever did the recording had a different notion of what constituted a good basic sound. With certain very expensive programs, studio equipment, and a lot of patience, I could potentially make them sound better, but I'm primarily a composer, not a studio tech. Spending weeks tweaking the sound of one or two particular instruments for a piece when I have ideas wanting to be expressed and put down isn't currently worth that kind of effort. What I need to do is hook up with someone who does enjoy that kind of work, has the equipment, and collaborate. Perhaps someday. (And perhaps someday, I'll find a willing orchestra, too.

) But I do have to say, imperfect though what I have available may sound when compared to a live orchestra, it's immensely better than what I had available when I first started writing these pieces. I just recently started working with yet a new set of instrument samples, which is much more extensive and varied than anything I've had before, but so far, I haven't had a chance to rescore any of my symphonic works using them. So much to do, so much time required, and so little time. *sigh*

And you're right about taste, Nogrod. As a musician, I have certainly been exposed to just about every kind of music there is, and naturally not all have been my cup of tea, but when I sit down to compose, I must be true to my own artistic vision, however much or little others might like it. Art is an expression of self, and this is a part of what I am. My own tastes tend to run toward the Impressionist and Romantic periods, and I'm sure that's reflected in my music. I'm not afraid of dissonance; I have written some quite dissonant pieces in the past, but since I write what I hear in my head, dissonance just wasn't what I heard, here, nor what felt was right for what I was attempting to achieve. I have a feeling that if I was ever to sit down and compose something about the Children of Hurin, I would find a lot of dissonance creeping in...

But in the end, as in all things, to each their own, and to thine own self be true.

Snowdog · 02-27-2008, 08:08 PM

Good Day everyone!

Its been ages since I've been by here. Good to see some old names as well as some new ones!

News here is life has changed drasticly over the last few years. Shortly after the time I helped start the 'Lingering Darkness' RP, I had to basicly retire from it due to a deteriorating domestic situation. Since then, the kids are grown, with my youngest graduating from high school this June, and I've seperated, tried reconciling, then gotten divorced. Now I'm together with an old friend who used to post here as Elora. This year I've moved from the Pacific Northwest to Brisbane, Australia and am currently jumping through immigration hoops. Everything is looking good, and life is good! I have a lot of back-reading to do I guess , but maybe everyone could post a summary of how they're doing?

Cheers Barrow Folk!

Estelyn Telcontar · 02-28-2008, 03:32 AM

Hi there, Snowdog! Good to hear from you again. I do hope you'll be able to adjust well to your new situation - never too late to teach an old (Snow)dog new tricks, eh?!

Please do say "hi" to Elora.

I'm still around and active; we're doing a re-run of the Chapter-by-Chapter LotR discussions, so you might enjoy joining us there. There's also a discussion of the BBC dramatization going on, with Brian Sibley visiting to tell us about his experiences producing it.

In real life Tolkien community goings-on, I'm preparing a lecture on the musical instruments of Middle-earth for the German Tolkien Society's seminar in April - a fascinating topic, though there is very little research material on it.

As to private interests, well, I'm practicing piano for a concert in November and have begun sewing a new quilt wall hanging. No need for me to "get a life" - I think I have several of them, but unfortunately I didn't get multiple allocations of the 24 hours each of them needs...

mark12_30 · 12-23-2008, 08:46 AM

So Esty, how did the piano concert go?

Any other greybeards out there?

I'm pondering doing the forest-themed interior decorating I always wanted to do. If I can't actually have a flet I want to pretend I'm in (or on) one by all the leaves and branches surrounding me.

Snowdog, I and my ranger-husband and our two hobbits are doing quite well. My sister Raefindel is around, and planning to come east (WOOT WOOT!!!) and she and I will spend some girl-time. Er, elf-lady time. I do think of myself as a hobbit, but with such fallohidish blood I fool myself sometimes into thinking I'm a short elf. If that sounds a bit confused, my husband would agree with you...

--mark12_30 (Helen)

mark12_30 · 04-19-2009, 06:27 PM

"Frodo's Sacrifice"

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5907

***Mithadan*** · 04-19-2009, 07:30 PM

The Bridge at Khazad-Dum was always one of my favorites.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1690

02-03-2008, 03:24 PM	#1
Ibrîniðilpathânezel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the Helcaraxe Posts: 733	Y'know, that's one of the things I always found odd about the mention of organs in the Ainulindale. It's the only keyboard instrument I can recall being mentioned anywhere in Tolkien's work, and it seems quite strangely anachronistic. Myself, I began with organ and piano, then voice, guitar, harp, flute... oh, a lot of instruments. It was encouraged for anyone going into conducting or composition. Most I have only dabbled with, the understand how they are played and how they make their individual sounds, but I've managed proficiency with a fair number. A while back, someone asked me why I never used saxophone in my Tolkien-inspired orchestral works, and I couldn't quite get them to understand that I found it much too "modern" sounding to fit what I heard in my head. Wasn't even invented until the mid-1800s, if I recall correctly, so no matter what, I just couldn't hear a sax being played in, say, Rivendell, or Gondolin, or Valinor. Maybe someone might be wailing on a sax in Mordor... __________________ Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :) Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill

02-03-2008, 05:25 PM	#2
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Esty, sounds like a link to your paper-development thread would be a good idea. Hint. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

02-04-2008, 02:02 AM	#3
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	I do agree with Rikae and yourself that being able to listen to your compositions played with real instruments would be great. That MIDI-sound is just plain awful at worst and being just a lot less than the real thing at best (the harp wasn't so bad). The pics you had there reminded me of the old Deutsche Grammophone records... especially those with the yellow lines around the picture. This is surely a matter of taste and I listened to only a small sample of your works - and this might even be a matter of principle to you - but I'll say it still. Don't be afraid of dissonance! Try it and you'll like it! Think of some of the great modern composers like Pärt or Rautavaara who make the most astonishingly beautiful music where the beauty is enhanced or heightened to a new level with a creative use of dissonance. But hats off to you. I really liked what I heard. __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

02-04-2008, 09:18 AM	#4
Ibrîniðilpathânezel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the Helcaraxe Posts: 733	Actually, the "instruments" are all wav samples of actual instruments, and I am not terribly pleased with some, because whoever did the recording had a different notion of what constituted a good basic sound. With certain very expensive programs, studio equipment, and a lot of patience, I could potentially make them sound better, but I'm primarily a composer, not a studio tech. Spending weeks tweaking the sound of one or two particular instruments for a piece when I have ideas wanting to be expressed and put down isn't currently worth that kind of effort. What I need to do is hook up with someone who does enjoy that kind of work, has the equipment, and collaborate. Perhaps someday. (And perhaps someday, I'll find a willing orchestra, too. ) But I do have to say, imperfect though what I have available may sound when compared to a live orchestra, it's immensely better than what I had available when I first started writing these pieces. I just recently started working with yet a new set of instrument samples, which is much more extensive and varied than anything I've had before, but so far, I haven't had a chance to rescore any of my symphonic works using them. So much to do, so much time required, and so little time. sigh And you're right about taste, Nogrod. As a musician, I have certainly been exposed to just about every kind of music there is, and naturally not all have been my cup of tea, but when I sit down to compose, I must be true to my own artistic vision, however much or little others might like it. Art is an expression of self, and this is a part of what I am. My own tastes tend to run toward the Impressionist and Romantic periods, and I'm sure that's reflected in my music. I'm not afraid of dissonance; I have written some quite dissonant pieces in the past, but since I write what I hear in my head, dissonance just wasn't what I heard, here, nor what felt was right for what I was attempting to achieve. I have a feeling that if I was ever to sit down and compose something about the Children of Hurin, I would find a lot of dissonance creeping in... But in the end, as in all things, to each their own, and to thine own self be true. __________________ Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :) Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill

02-28-2008, 03:32 AM	#6
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Hi there, Snowdog! Good to hear from you again. I do hope you'll be able to adjust well to your new situation - never too late to teach an old (Snow)dog new tricks, eh?! Please do say "hi" to Elora. I'm still around and active; we're doing a re-run of the Chapter-by-Chapter LotR discussions, so you might enjoy joining us there. There's also a discussion of the BBC dramatization going on, with Brian Sibley visiting to tell us about his experiences producing it. In real life Tolkien community goings-on, I'm preparing a lecture on the musical instruments of Middle-earth for the German Tolkien Society's seminar in April - a fascinating topic, though there is very little research material on it. As to private interests, well, I'm practicing piano for a concert in November and have begun sewing a new quilt wall hanging. No need for me to "get a life" - I think I have several of them, but unfortunately I didn't get multiple allocations of the 24 hours each of them needs... __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

02-27-2008, 08:08 PM	#5
Snowdog Emperor of the South Pole Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Western Shore of Lake Evendim Posts: 647	Good Day everyone! Its been ages since I've been by here. Good to see some old names as well as some new ones! News here is life has changed drasticly over the last few years. Shortly after the time I helped start the 'Lingering Darkness' RP, I had to basicly retire from it due to a deteriorating domestic situation. Since then, the kids are grown, with my youngest graduating from high school this June, and I've seperated, tried reconciling, then gotten divorced. Now I'm together with an old friend who used to post here as Elora. This year I've moved from the Pacific Northwest to Brisbane, Australia and am currently jumping through immigration hoops. Everything is looking good, and life is good! I have a lot of back-reading to do I guess , but maybe everyone could post a summary of how they're doing? Cheers Barrow Folk!

12-23-2008, 08:46 AM	#7
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	So Esty, how did the piano concert go? Any other greybeards out there? I'm pondering doing the forest-themed interior decorating I always wanted to do. If I can't actually have a flet I want to pretend I'm in (or on) one by all the leaves and branches surrounding me. Snowdog, I and my ranger-husband and our two hobbits are doing quite well. My sister Raefindel is around, and planning to come east (WOOT WOOT!!!) and she and I will spend some girl-time. Er, elf-lady time. I do think of myself as a hobbit, but with such fallohidish blood I fool myself sometimes into thinking I'm a short elf. If that sounds a bit confused, my husband would agree with you... --mark12_30 (Helen) __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

04-19-2009, 06:27 PM	#8
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	"Frodo's Sacrifice" http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5907 __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

04-19-2009, 07:30 PM	#9
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,394	The Bridge at Khazad-Dum was always one of my favorites. http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1690 __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.