Was Sauron a Balrog?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Now who was the first of the Maiar that followed Melkor? Sauron.

No. It's never said that he was. Indeed it is said that the Balrogs were first drawn to Melkor: with the strong implication that they turned to him before Arda. They were never of the people of the Valar. Whereas Sauron was a Maia in good standing before he switched sides.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

No. It's never said that he was. Indeed it is said that the Balrogs were first drawn to Melkor: with the strong implication that they turned to him before Arda. They were never of the people of the Valar. Whereas Sauron was a Maia in good standing before he switched sides.

Actually this quote is what I originally thought could have been the origin of the question - but only if the "one" were with small "o".

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Indeed it is said that the Balrogs were first drawn to Melkor: with the strong implication that they turned to him before Arda. They were never of the people of the Valar.

Where's that said? I have somehow got the impression that they were of Aulë's people.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Where's that said? I have somehow got the impression that they were of Aulë's people.

Definitely not Aulë's. I don't know from where I have it, but for some reason I am convinced that they were originally like Arien. To my surprise, though, after trying to look it up, I did not find the quote. Maybe I just don't know where to look, but it's also possible that I am suffering from some unexplainable suggestion.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Where's that said? I have somehow got the impression that they were of Aulë's people.

It's in the Valaquenta and in Of the Coming of the Elves.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Definitely not Aulë's. I don't know from where I have it, but for some reason I am convinced that they were originally like Arien. To my surprise, though, after trying to look it up, I did not find the quote. Maybe I just don't know where to look, but it's also possible that I am suffering from some unexplainable suggestion.

Are you thinking of this?

she was chosen because she had not feared the heats of Laurelin, and was unhurt by them, being from the beginning a spirit of fire, whom Melkor had not deceived nor drawn to his service.

Originally Posted by alatar

And note whereas Balrogs taste like roast chicken, Sauron would taste more feline.

Uh... yeah... whatever you say...

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Uh... yeah... whatever you say...

Sorry; must have been a little nutty at that moment.

What I obviously meant to write was that Balrogs maintain the same shape/form/appearance whether they're whipping Ungoliant away or fighting Gandalf on the Bridge. Even when wet, Balrogs do not radically change shape. Sauron, on the other hand, had taken many different shapes - some fair (Annatar) and others foul (wolf, Eye, etc).

Clearly horses of different colours.

The Encyclopedia of Arda has Arien as a Maiar of Vána.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by alatar

Sorry; must have been a little nutty at that moment.

I was actually rather intrigued by the idea of an Evil Maia taste-test...

Originally Posted by alatar

The Encyclopedia of Arda has Arien as a Maiar of Vána.

It says (in the Silm)

Arien had tended the golden flowers in the gardens of Vána

[Thinlómien]

I'm not claiming anything about the origin of balrogs - except that being the "certain 'downer" mentioned on this thread I think I must say I have thought them to be Aulë's Maiar with no canon evidence - but surely I'm either missing something or then some people on this thread have flaws in their logic.

Arien was a fire spirit, yes. Balrogs were fire spirits, yes. But does it prove they both were originally servants of the same Vala? No, I don't think so - why should it prove that? The fact that they share the element doesn't mean, in my opinion, that they are associated with the same Vala. The Valar are not totally different or opposites of one other. If they are, in some cases, quite similar to one another (just think of Yavanna and Vána and flowers, for example), why couldn't their servants be similar to one other too?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I don't know from where I have it, but for some reason I am convinced that they were originally like Arien.

Me too... And I thought Arien was of Aulë's folk as well. I really have no idea where I've got this impression, maybe it's just something we speculated years ago with a certain downer.

edit: xed with Nerwen. Thanks.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Are you thinking of this?

Oh yes, possibly. I must have made a conclusion based on this a long time ago and it grew to incredible size. Thank you anyway.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Me too... And I thought Arien was of Aulë's folk as well. I really have no idea where I've got this impression, maybe it's just something we speculated years ago with a certain downer.

Hmph. Well, that Aulë thing is quite logical - you know, Aulë, forges, fire, earth, lava, these things. I probably thought so as well at first - but later, when I "learned" that the Balrogs were Varda's, I considered it as much interesting as unlikely, and so that settled it.