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#1 | |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,330
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#2 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#3 |
Woman of Secret Shadow
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
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Where's that said? I have somehow got the impression that they were of Aulë's people.
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He bit me, and I was not gentle. |
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#4 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Definitely not Aulë's. I don't know from where I have it, but for some reason I am convinced that they were originally like Arien. To my surprise, though, after trying to look it up, I did not find the quote. Maybe I just don't know where to look, but it's also possible that I am suffering from some unexplainable suggestion.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#5 | ||||
Wisest of the Noldor
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#6 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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Sorry; must have been a little nutty at that moment.
![]() What I obviously meant to write was that Balrogs maintain the same shape/form/appearance whether they're whipping Ungoliant away or fighting Gandalf on the Bridge. Even when wet, Balrogs do not radically change shape. Sauron, on the other hand, had taken many different shapes - some fair (Annatar) and others foul (wolf, Eye, etc). Clearly horses of different colours. The Encyclopedia of Arda has Arien as a Maiar of Vána.
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There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
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#7 | ||
Wisest of the Noldor
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I was actually rather intrigued by the idea of an Evil Maia taste-test...
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#8 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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I'm not claiming anything about the origin of balrogs - except that being the "certain 'downer" mentioned on this thread I think I must say I have thought them to be Aulë's Maiar with no canon evidence - but surely I'm either missing something or then some people on this thread have flaws in their logic.
![]() Arien was a fire spirit, yes. Balrogs were fire spirits, yes. But does it prove they both were originally servants of the same Vala? No, I don't think so - why should it prove that? The fact that they share the element doesn't mean, in my opinion, that they are associated with the same Vala. The Valar are not totally different or opposites of one other. If they are, in some cases, quite similar to one another (just think of Yavanna and Vána and flowers, for example), why couldn't their servants be similar to one other too?
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#9 | |
Woman of Secret Shadow
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
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edit: xed with Nerwen. Thanks.
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He bit me, and I was not gentle. |
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#10 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Oh yes, possibly. I must have made a conclusion based on this a long time ago and it grew to incredible size. Thank you anyway.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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