Which volumes of HoME would you recommend? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mithalwen · 02-06-2008, 02:24 PM

Nothing to forgive ... and *whispers* it is my favourite too since it includes "LACE" as well .... but there is good stuff elsewhere.

Sauron the White · 02-06-2008, 02:30 PM

Skip should be forewarned that most of those books would be more accurately titled THE HISTORY OF THE WRITING OF MIDDLE EARTH. If somebody picks up all those books thinking they are going to get two feet worth of detailed information about actual Middle-earth events that were not in the standard HOBBIT and LOTR, they usually are greatly disappointed. These are great books if you want to know all the ins and outs of how they were written. As true history books, they are badly mistitled. Of course, I have always suspected that a series of books called THE HISTORY OF THE WRITING OF MIDDLE EARTH would have sold even fewer copies that did the HOME.

Mithalwen · 02-06-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Skip should be forewarned that most of those books would be more accurately titled THE HISTORY OF THE WRITING OF MIDDLE EARTH. If somebody picks up all those books thinking they are going to get two feet worth of detailed information about actual Middle-earth events that were not in the standard HOBBIT and LOTR, they usually are greatly disappointed.

Well if people pick them up and don't bother to examine either the back cover or flip through the insides then they deserve to waste their money especially if they buy they whole lot without finding out about them. It isn't like going to a film, you can see what you are going to get before you cough up the cash, or get them from the library.

Sauron the White · 02-06-2008, 03:20 PM

So that justifies the mistitling of the entire series? Let he buyer beware? Theres a sucker born every minute? Its your own darn fault?

Ibrîniðilpathânezel · 02-06-2008, 03:41 PM

For my own part, I've read all of the HoME series, and in terms of providing the most information about the world we see in LotR, the Hobbit, and the Silmarillion, I found Morgoth's Ring and The Peoples of Middle-earth most enlightening (especially as a researcher and a fan writer).

The books that cover the evolution of the writing of LotR are interesting, but, IMHO, potentially confusing (the same can be said for the books that cover evolving and alternate versions of the Silmarillion). Looking at the variations and Christopher Tolkien's commentary can set one's head spinning, because sometimes, they raise more questions than they answer (well, that was my experience, some of the time, and I'm not unfamiliar with in-depth literary analysis). Unfortunately, there are a lot of questions that only JRRT himself can really answer, and even he hadn't made up his mind about some of them before he died. This doesn't mean I consider the books worthless; they certainly offer glimpses into the mind and method of Tolkien and his imagination, which can be quite valuable in appreciating his finished work. But I don't think it hurts for one to approach these books with care, if one is looking for more definitive information about Middle-earth, its history and its inhabitants. Just my two cents, of course.

The Might · 02-06-2008, 03:44 PM

Now, now, StW, let's not get to hasty there.
I agree with Mith fully because a buyer always has to check what he is buying first.

It is your personal opinion that CT should have chosen a perhaps more fitting name for the series and I can see where you're coming from.
However, I find the title quite fitting, because we are not talking about M-e as the place with all the infromation or "lore" as you may call it that comes along with it but as Tolkien's creation and the changes it underwent during the writing process.

I remember a few times that I bought something that I afterwards regreted not having looked up first but that was my own fault.

Mithalwen · 02-06-2008, 03:52 PM

Yes they have only them selves to blame. It isn't mistitling ... a book is one of the few things you can judge pretty well before buying. It isn't sold in a sealed wrapper. You can browse through it before buying. Amazon has review which detail what is in it for online buyers. These are not cheap novels such as the ones that I might chuck in the shopping trolley along with groceries. If people buy a book without looking at it or researching it then they can hardly claim to be ripped off. An idiot not a sucker - And anyone who buys the whole lot without doing so has more money than sense. The complete set costs £100 - £120, I am certainly not in the financial league to spend that much on books unless I know I want them.

Presumably the publishers may have assumed a modicum of intelligence from potential publishers of such works. They cannot be blamed if people cannot be bothered to read even the back cover

I bought the first volumes of HoMe when I was a teenager and they represented serious expenditure. Some I have read more than others but I am glad I have them all, just as I am glad I have "The Road goes ever on" even though I can't play the piano.

Thinlómien · 02-07-2008, 05:34 AM

There is an old (well, not that old but it feels like I started it ages ago, just look at my English

) thread on the subject.

HoME sweet HoME?

I haven't read all of the HoME but I can't recommend everything I've read this far - both volumes of Lost Tales and The Peoples of Middle-Earth.

If you want to read something that does not (necessarily?) conflict with Tolkien's published works, the stories Tal-Elmar and The New Shadow are very interesting, but sadly unfinished. They can both be found in The Peoples of Middle-Earth.

skip spence · 02-07-2008, 03:01 PM

Thank you for your comments.

I am aware that these books aren't (fictional) history books per say, but rather the history of Tolkien's creation of Arda. While this might be interesting for a select few, I'm amazed at at the sheer size of the project with its 12 volumes, to my knowledge mostly consisting of discarded drafts and (at times) rather tedious comments by CT. While browsing the books in my local pocket-book shop I was flabbergasted to find that even the combined indexes were published as a seperate book, priced the same as the other volumes. My first thought was that the Tolkien estate were trying to wring out as much money as possible out of JRRT's unpublished writings. But then again, who in their right mind would pay 20 Euro for a 400 page index? I mean, could this really be a economically viable project? Or are there really enough Tolkien maniacs and academics around for it to justify the 13 books?

Anyhow, what I can gather from your advice is that "The Peoples of Middle Earth" should be first (and perhaps last) on my shopping list. What's in this one?

And how about the 11th volume, "The War of the Jewels"? I am a big fan of the Silmarillion. Will this volume broaden my horizon?

Aganzir · 02-06-2008, 02:41 PM

I have made it to volume four by now, and it will probably still take me some years before I've read them all, but anyway, here we go.

I didn't enjoy the Books of Lost Tales that much either, for the same reasons you skip spence mentioned. There were many things that made me think "Oh that I'm happy he didn't leave them like this"...
But on the other hand, there are some good things as well that didn't make it to the Silmarillion - the Cottage of Lost Play for example, which was rather lovely.

My absolute favourite thus far has been vol. III: Lays of Beleriand. It's just so... different to read familiar stories in verse form. But, apart from good poems that give more insight to some minor details, a disliker of poetry doesn't miss much if he doesn't read it.

02-06-2008, 02:24 PM	#1
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Nothing to forgive ... and whispers it is my favourite too since it includes "LACE" as well .... but there is good stuff elsewhere. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-06-2008, 03:41 PM	#5
Ibrîniðilpathânezel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the Helcaraxe Posts: 733	For my own part, I've read all of the HoME series, and in terms of providing the most information about the world we see in LotR, the Hobbit, and the Silmarillion, I found Morgoth's Ring and The Peoples of Middle-earth most enlightening (especially as a researcher and a fan writer). The books that cover the evolution of the writing of LotR are interesting, but, IMHO, potentially confusing (the same can be said for the books that cover evolving and alternate versions of the Silmarillion). Looking at the variations and Christopher Tolkien's commentary can set one's head spinning, because sometimes, they raise more questions than they answer (well, that was my experience, some of the time, and I'm not unfamiliar with in-depth literary analysis). Unfortunately, there are a lot of questions that only JRRT himself can really answer, and even he hadn't made up his mind about some of them before he died. This doesn't mean I consider the books worthless; they certainly offer glimpses into the mind and method of Tolkien and his imagination, which can be quite valuable in appreciating his finished work. But I don't think it hurts for one to approach these books with care, if one is looking for more definitive information about Middle-earth, its history and its inhabitants. Just my two cents, of course. __________________ Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :) Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill

02-06-2008, 03:44 PM	#6
The Might Guard of the Citadel Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Oxon Posts: 2,205	Now, now, StW, let's not get to hasty there. I agree with Mith fully because a buyer always has to check what he is buying first. It is your personal opinion that CT should have chosen a perhaps more fitting name for the series and I can see where you're coming from. However, I find the title quite fitting, because we are not talking about M-e as the place with all the infromation or "lore" as you may call it that comes along with it but as Tolkien's creation and the changes it underwent during the writing process. I remember a few times that I bought something that I afterwards regreted not having looked up first but that was my own fault. __________________ “The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.” Delos B. McKown

02-06-2008, 03:52 PM	#7
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	No sympathy for self inflicted injuries. Yes they have only them selves to blame. It isn't mistitling ... a book is one of the few things you can judge pretty well before buying. It isn't sold in a sealed wrapper. You can browse through it before buying. Amazon has review which detail what is in it for online buyers. These are not cheap novels such as the ones that I might chuck in the shopping trolley along with groceries. If people buy a book without looking at it or researching it then they can hardly claim to be ripped off. An idiot not a sucker - And anyone who buys the whole lot without doing so has more money than sense. The complete set costs £100 - £120, I am certainly not in the financial league to spend that much on books unless I know I want them. Presumably the publishers may have assumed a modicum of intelligence from potential publishers of such works. They cannot be blamed if people cannot be bothered to read even the back cover I bought the first volumes of HoMe when I was a teenager and they represented serious expenditure. Some I have read more than others but I am glad I have them all, just as I am glad I have "The Road goes ever on" even though I can't play the piano. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

02-07-2008, 05:34 AM	#8
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	There is an old (well, not that old but it feels like I started it ages ago, just look at my English ) thread on the subject. HoME sweet HoME? I haven't read all of the HoME but I can't recommend everything I've read this far - both volumes of Lost Tales and The Peoples of Middle-Earth. If you want to read something that does not (necessarily?) conflict with Tolkien's published works, the stories Tal-Elmar and The New Shadow are very interesting, but sadly unfinished. They can both be found in The Peoples of Middle-Earth. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

02-06-2008, 02:30 PM	#2
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	Skip should be forewarned that most of those books would be more accurately titled THE HISTORY OF THE WRITING OF MIDDLE EARTH. If somebody picks up all those books thinking they are going to get two feet worth of detailed information about actual Middle-earth events that were not in the standard HOBBIT and LOTR, they usually are greatly disappointed. These are great books if you want to know all the ins and outs of how they were written. As true history books, they are badly mistitled. Of course, I have always suspected that a series of books called THE HISTORY OF THE WRITING OF MIDDLE EARTH would have sold even fewer copies that did the HOME.

02-06-2008, 03:20 PM	#4
Sauron the White Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 903	So that justifies the mistitling of the entire series? Let he buyer beware? Theres a sucker born every minute? Its your own darn fault?

02-07-2008, 03:01 PM	#9
skip spence shadow of a doubt Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Back on the streets Posts: 1,125	Thank you for your comments. I am aware that these books aren't (fictional) history books per say, but rather the history of Tolkien's creation of Arda. While this might be interesting for a select few, I'm amazed at at the sheer size of the project with its 12 volumes, to my knowledge mostly consisting of discarded drafts and (at times) rather tedious comments by CT. While browsing the books in my local pocket-book shop I was flabbergasted to find that even the combined indexes were published as a seperate book, priced the same as the other volumes. My first thought was that the Tolkien estate were trying to wring out as much money as possible out of JRRT's unpublished writings. But then again, who in their right mind would pay 20 Euro for a 400 page index? I mean, could this really be a economically viable project? Or are there really enough Tolkien maniacs and academics around for it to justify the 13 books? Anyhow, what I can gather from your advice is that "The Peoples of Middle Earth" should be first (and perhaps last) on my shopping list. What's in this one? And how about the 11th volume, "The War of the Jewels"? I am a big fan of the Silmarillion. Will this volume broaden my horizon?

02-06-2008, 02:41 PM	#10
Aganzir Woman of Secret Shadow Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells Posts: 4,511	I have made it to volume four by now, and it will probably still take me some years before I've read them all, but anyway, here we go. I didn't enjoy the Books of Lost Tales that much either, for the same reasons you skip spence mentioned. There were many things that made me think "Oh that I'm happy he didn't leave them like this"... But on the other hand, there are some good things as well that didn't make it to the Silmarillion - the Cottage of Lost Play for example, which was rather lovely. My absolute favourite thus far has been vol. III: Lays of Beleriand. It's just so... different to read familiar stories in verse form. But, apart from good poems that give more insight to some minor details, a disliker of poetry doesn't miss much if he doesn't read it. __________________ He bit me, and I was not gentle.