Hurin and despair - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 05-22-2003, 02:22 AM

I'm uncomforatble with the idea of Men in ME being TOO different from ourselves. I relate to them simply because I don't see them as being that different from us.

Secondly, I still can't see Morgoth's actions as implying real fear - he is too casual in his attempt to get information from Hurin. He simply takes too long, if he's really afraid. Also, while he may have been afraid of Turgon in the past, was he still so afraid after the Nirnaith, when Turgon had run away, leaving Hurin & Huor to their fates (as Morgoth would have seen it)? Without knowledge of Earendel, he could only have thought of Turgon as a military threat, & as I said, he was convinced the VALAR weren't going to intervene.

He was then at his most powerful, his ememies defeated & scattered. Also, the fact that the Elves, in their accounts, say Morgoth was afraid of Turgon, doesn't make it true. If you were reading the Sil as a historical account, & you knew it was a 'biased' account, if you just took the stated facts of Morgoths behaviour & left aside the 'interpretations' of the writers, would you really see Morgoth as a frightened being, desperate to get information about his enemies location to save his skin? None of his ACTUAL behaviour makes me think that.

Finally, I know this is a fun debate - I hope everyone else does. I'd hate anyone to take anything I say as anything more.

05-22-2003, 02:22 AM	#1
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	I'm uncomforatble with the idea of Men in ME being TOO different from ourselves. I relate to them simply because I don't see them as being that different from us. Secondly, I still can't see Morgoth's actions as implying real fear - he is too casual in his attempt to get information from Hurin. He simply takes too long, if he's really afraid. Also, while he may have been afraid of Turgon in the past, was he still so afraid after the Nirnaith, when Turgon had run away, leaving Hurin & Huor to their fates (as Morgoth would have seen it)? Without knowledge of Earendel, he could only have thought of Turgon as a military threat, & as I said, he was convinced the VALAR weren't going to intervene. He was then at his most powerful, his ememies defeated & scattered. Also, the fact that the Elves, in their accounts, say Morgoth was afraid of Turgon, doesn't make it true. If you were reading the Sil as a historical account, & you knew it was a 'biased' account, if you just took the stated facts of Morgoths behaviour & left aside the 'interpretations' of the writers, would you really see Morgoth as a frightened being, desperate to get information about his enemies location to save his skin? None of his ACTUAL behaviour makes me think that. Finally, I know this is a fun debate - I hope everyone else does. I'd hate anyone to take anything I say as anything more. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."