Elrond and Sauron, a personal vendetta?

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Gordis

what did Galadriel feel when she thought back to this time, when she recalled it - knowing already with certainty who Annatar really had been? He had duped her then and got away with it and killed more of her dear ones and prevented her from using Nenya for a half-age. Galling?

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

All of which, I suppose, could mean that though both might well desire revenge against Sauron, Galadriel, I think, would be more likely to actively seek it.

Whatever strong feelings she had, it was Elrond, not Galadriel, who planned out and marched against Sauron in a ten years war.

Originally Posted by Gordis

Is a desire for vengeance a soft spot?

I believe it is, especially morally so - which could prove fatal (if Galadriel, besides and above her natural temptation towards the ring also nurtured feelings of revenged, she would have been most likely doomed when confronted with the ring) ; in any confrontation of wills, be it direct or not, having a negative emotion driving your actions is a great liability, which an enemy could use to his advantage, by baiting, feeding whatever expectations you might have - it is the same strategy that Gandalf & co used against Sauron, they knew how he would think and react.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Raynor, surely you know that just because stuff is not mentioned in sourses it does not mean that it was not the case.

True, but then it is a case of personal opinion .

[Gordis]

Raynor: Whatever strong feelings she had, it was Elrond, not Galadriel, who planned out and marched against Sauron in a ten years war.

You mean the Last Alliance war? It was actually a twelve- years war, 3429-3441

I think Galadriel was not there first and foremost because she was a woman. Eldar never normally send their women to fight - neither Melian, nor Galadriel, nor Aredhel ever actively participated in battles of the First Age. As far as we know, Galadriel only took a sword once in her life - in Alqualonde.

Another reason is perhaps that at the time, neither she, not Celeborn had any people of their own to lead to battle. I have an impression that Celeborn wasn't in the Last Alliance fights either.

But staying behind only makes one more bitter, IMO.

Note also that after the victory Galadriel went to Dol Guldur and brought its walls down (with relish ).

As for the "soft spot" - I agree that a vendetta-like disposition is a character flaw, making one more vulnerable to Enemy. Simply I wouldn't call it a "soft" spot.
Take Celeborn and his attitude to Dwarves. He got much more personal in his dislike than an average elf like Legolas. I don't think it made him "softer" but it caused a lot of problems for his neighbours and himself. Had he given some support or advice to Balin et al., perhaps the attempt to re-colonise Moria wouldn't have failed so tragically.

And don't you agree with Ibrin and me that Galadriel seemed to be much more tempted by the Master Ring than Elrond?

[Raynor]

Originally Posted by Gordis

It was actually a twelve- years war, 3429-3441

That is so, if we consider that the war started with Sauron's attack on Gondor - although the last alliance was formed in the following year. In fact, even my ten year estimates was a bit off, since the battle started only in 3434.

Eldar never normally send their women to fight

But this was not a normal situation:

Originally Posted by Of the rings of power and the third age, Silmarillion

Now Elendil and Gil-galad took counsel together, for they perceived that Sauron would grow too strong and would overcome all his enemies one by one, if they did not unite against him.

And the nissi do rise to battle when such a dire need comes, Galadriel moreso than any.

Another reason is perhaps that at the time, neither she, not Celeborn had any people of their own to lead to battle.

I doubt she couldn't find a handful of warriors to lead at one of the most important battles of all time (the Dunedain joined a similarly important battle, an Age later, only a handful too), nor that it would have mattered to her if she was driven by thirst for revenge. Moreover, she was a great warrior by herself, which could have been of great value.

Simply I wouldn't call it a "soft" spot.

Well, I didn't mean it in the sense of softness, but, as you said, vulnerability.

And don't you agree with Ibrin and me that Galadriel seemed to be much more tempted by the Master Ring than Elrond?

True, but, as I mentioned previously, her passing of the test proves the level of her moral fiber. The greater the test, the higher the valor .

[Elmo]

I can't imagine why Celeborn would not fight against Sauron in the alliance especially after his role in Eregion. Elves stay able to fight all their life so it would make to try and take all your strength to Dagorlad despite him personally not having an army behind his back. I doubt they marched with the Wood Elves because surely Celeborn would have been able to prevent Amdir's suicidal charge he is called the Wise for a reason. Or maybe Amdir just ignored him!

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Elmo

I can't imagine why Celeborn would not fight against Sauron in the alliance especially after his role in Eregion. Elves stay able to fight all their life so it would make to try and take all your strength to Dagorlad despite him personally not having an army behind his back. I doubt they marched with the Wood Elves because surely Celeborn would have been able to prevent Amdir's suicidal charge he is called the Wise for a reason. Or maybe Amdir just ignored him!

Good questions, but the problem is that Celeborn was never mentioned in relation to the Last Alliance battles. Yet we know that Elrond, Cirdan, Gil-Galad, Amdir and Oropher were there. (By the way, I think it was Oropher who attacked earlier than planned, while Amdir was cut from the main forces and perished in the Dead Marches).
The apparent absence of Celeborn in the Last Alliance war could be a simple omission but, alternatively, Celeborn might have stayed behind for some reason. I can think of a possible one:
If Celeborn were Thingol's kinsman (LOTR and Silm), specifically "the grandson of Thingol's brother Elmo" (UT), then he was by right the Lord of Sindarin Elves, and should have been superior to both Oropher and Amdir - Sindar from Doriath. Yet these two guys had founded their own kingdoms and bowed to no one. Celeborn, by contrast, lost his own lordship of Eregion and all his people and wandered here and there, mostly living in Belfalas. Perhaps he couldn't take part in the Alliance with both Amdir and Oropher refusing him their allegiance?
Just a hypothesis.

[Eönwë]

Women are weak and soft? Pah! Look at Boudicca! (I would normally be prone to "males are better" thoughts, being male, but this is ridiculous!)


Galadriel definiely had more reason to want vengeance than Elrond, but that does not mean that Elronf did not hate him with the most intense bitter hate.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Gordis

The apparent absence of Celeborn in the Last Alliance war could be a simple omission but, alternatively, Celeborn might have stayed behind for some reason. I can think of a possible one.

And I can think of another: If you send absolutely everyone off to war, who takes care of what you left behind, and hope to return to? Who does the work to provide the supplies your army will need during a long war, and who will keep the supply lines open? It's not the kind of task that usually gets remembered when the war is over, but it is as essential to its success as those who go out and fight on the front lines. Celeborn may well have had unsung talents as an administrator rather than a military mind. Since he has a reputation as being wise, I think it would certainly demonstrate wisdom to be willing to remain behind where there is little glory, but considerable and much needed work to be done.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

And I can think of another: If you send absolutely everyone off to war, who takes care of what you left behind, and hope to return to? Who does the work to provide the supplies your army will need during a long war, and who will keep the supply lines open? It's not the kind of task that usually gets remembered when the war is over, but it is as essential to its success as those who go out and fight on the front lines. Celeborn may well have had unsung talents as an administrator rather than a military mind. Since he has a reputation as being wise, I think it would certainly demonstrate wisdom to be willing to remain behind where there is little glory, but considerable and much needed work to be done.

That makes a lot of sense to me. The 7 years-long siege of Barad-Dur would have been impossible without well organized supply lines.