Werewolf XLII, Mist in the Barrow Downs

[Nerwen]

Rikae, at #184 you're saying that it's pointless to examine the Aganzir votes .

In your next post (#186) you start examining Gwath's vote for Aganzir– saying you're starting to "reconsider your suspicions".

Explain, please.

And also

Originally Posted by Rikae

I mean, any experienced player would recognize the likelihood of innocents lynching innocents, especially on day one, right?

Indeed– and also the likelihood of wolves lynching innocents. Are you seriously surprised that people are looking into it? Really?

Edit: X'd with Menel, Rikae and Menel again.

[Rikae]

Menel, you've suspected me from your very first post, and there has never been a bit of reason in it. I've ignored it until now, but it's getting on my nerves, so let's see – of what does this “wolvishness” of mine consist?

Originally Posted by Menel

Rikae would seem to be the one most guilty of this "nonsense posting". She makes a post full of jokes, then asks that others contribute to the discussion which she hasn't contributed much to herself.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Rikae.

Yeah, that's right, you cross-posted with me contributing. However, this doesn't change the fact that you find me guilty because (gasp) I didn't post something substantive in the second post of day one.


Now, what could I have posted that would have had substance? Theory, perhaps? No, Menel dislikes theory, apparently:

Originally Posted by Menel

Rikae continues to worry me, though. She apparently thinks a "conventional vs. weird" debate has merit, and also advocates using gut feelings. Not that there's anything wrong with using instinct, but "I have a gut feeling about him" would be a good way for a wolf to sway the voting without having to make up a reason.

Yep, theory is out. He also seems to think I advocated using “I have a gut feeling” as a reason, when I had specifically said:

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm not saying we should refrain from giving reasons for our suspicions

Then he goes on to claim:

Originally Posted by Menel

Oh, and so as to not wander too far from today's business, if Mac was trying to catch a wolf in his net, Rikae appears to have taken the bait.

This is obviously a complete misunderstanding of what Mac said, as Mac explained, but Menel still holds to it as valid, I suppose. Apparently, his reasoning is that because I thought it was reasonable to say conventional, uncontroversial behavior is suspicious, I must be a wolf. Now, if that isn't ridiculous... it *is* reasonable. Uncontroversial behavior *is* suspicious, always has been, always will be, and if this makes me a wolf, it's because I was being uncontroversial by agreeing with it! Of course, I don't think anyone can call me uncontroversial in general...

ToDay, he comes up with:

Originally Posted by Menel

Then, seeing a vote in play, Rikae jumps in to save Macalaure, followed by the would-be lynchee himself.

Apparently this is why he finds me even more suspicious toDay. Well, I made it clear that I wanted to make sure I could save Macalaure with my vote at the time. Honestly, no other action would have made sense at the time (I can say this until I'm blue in the face and no one will hear me, will they?) I suspected Agan, not Menel, Shasta, Sally or Gwath, and thought Macalaure was the most innocentish of all. I did *not* “jump in” to save Macalaure, though, as I waited for a chance to do so by voting for an actual suspect.

Originally Posted by Menel

I have noticed, disturbingly, that Rikae and Macalaure have been defending and supporting each other during the entire game and coming up with the exact same suspects, Aganzir and Nerwen.

Well, I've been defending him since I made up my mind he was innocent. I never hid this, and I've explained my thinking already...

EDIT: Crossed with Menel and Nerwen; fixed spacing.

[Gwathagor]

Rikae seems to be in a bit of a panic; at any rate, she's posted a lot in the last hour or so. Is this because she is innocent? Or is it because I struck a nerve in post #181?

Regarding Rikae's post #186: that is a very good plan that I thought of. Diabolical, in fact.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Rikae seems to be in a bit of a panic; at any rate, she's posted a lot in the last hour or so. Is this because she is innocent? Or is it because I struck a nerve in post #181?

You absolutely did - my last nerve. There's only so much balderdash and group-think I can tolerate before I get annoyed.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Rikae

You absolutely did - my last nerve. There's only so much balderdash and group-think I can tolerate before I get annoyed.

The feel of the noose settling about one's neck would be enough to make anyone panic, whether wolf or human, but maybe your distress was a bit premature for an innocent human? It's hard to say, and I'm not certain either way. Let the wise confer.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

The feel of the noose settling about one's neck would be enough to make anyone panic, whether wolf or human, but maybe your distress was a bit premature for an innocent human? It's hard to say, and I'm not certain either way. Let the wise confer.

That is a strange thing to say when the noose was around Mac's neck, as far as I can see, and not mine.

I am getting so fed up with this game. I'm really on the verge of quitting - I mean, what's the point? I talk and talk, and everyone ignores me. It doesn't matter how many times I've been right in the past, everyone goes along with some wacky argument someone else comes up with, even though it has no substance to it. When you lynch Macalaure and find him innocent, will you remember what I said? Oh no, I'm just blinded by my emotions; I don't know what I'm talking about. Bah -- I'm sick of it. No one listens to reason, dammit (boy am I glad to know I can get away with saying that here!)

EDIT: X'd with Sally

[Meneltarmacil]

Aye, let the wise confer. I'll be leaving this place for the night ('tis looking much like a battlefield lately, I might add)

(OOC: I'm sorry if I'm really being too hard on you, Rikae, regardless of the fur and fangs.)

EDIT: Cross-posted with Rikae.

[Meneltarmacil]

Excuse the double-post.

Originally Posted by [B

Rikae[/B]]When you lynch Macalaure and find him innocent, will you remember what I said?

Now I had been considering the idea that Mac was innocent and being misled by wolf-Rikae, but decided it better not to mention it then and see how things went. Now, though, I think it's best to say it.

I'll excuse myself for now.

EDIT: Cross posted with Rikae and Shasta.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Rikae, at #184 you're saying that it's pointless to examine the Aganzir votes .

In your next post (#186) you start examining Gwath's vote for Aganzir– saying you're starting to "reconsider your suspicions".

Explain, please.

I didn't say being an Aganzir voter made one innocent. I didn't even say it was pointless to examine us. What I disagree with is the fact that onlyAganzir voters are being examined, and everyone seems to have made up their minds (against all reason I can see), that there must be a wolf among them.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Indeed– and also the likelihood of wolves lynching innocents. Are you seriously surprised that people are looking into it? Really?

I am definitely suprised that people seem to be dead certain there is a wolf among the three of us. If you honestly think that an innocent being lynched on day one means wolves must have voted for her, you haven't played much Werewolf. It would have been the easiest thing in the world for the wolves to avoid that spotlight- - it only took three votes. To put that in perspective, three people didn't vote at all (and you were one of them, no?) I wouldn't be surprised if there was a wolf or two among the non-voters (Nerwen, Menel & McCaber) and one or two among the safe-voters. That is, after all, where wolves generally prefer to be.

Remember, wolves don't really care who gets lynched, as long as it isn't one of their own (and even then, they're liable to turn on the one who's going down.) They don't need to jump into the middle of close races... they can sit back and watch the innocents lynch each other, which is statistically more probable than lynching a wolf.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I am definitely suprised that people seem to be dead certain there is a wolf among the three of us. If you honestly think that an innocent being lynched on day one means wolves must have voted for her, you haven't played much Werewolf. It would have been the easiest thing in the world for the wolves to avoid that spotlight- - it only took three votes. To put that in perspective, three people didn't vote at all (and you were one of them, no?) I wouldn't be surprised if there was a wolf or two among the non-voters (Nerwen, Menel & McCaber) and one or two among the safe-voters. That is, after all, where wolves generally prefer to be.

This is a good argument.

[Macalaure]

Very good analysis of Nerwen by Nogrod. I'm less convinced of her guilt today, actually, and more confused by her.

The way Rikae has been defending me further convinces me of her innocence. She wouldn't do it like that if she was a wolf. Even if we both were wolves (which some suspect) she wouldn't do it that way. There's been a lot of misunderstandings and misrepresentations in what has been said about her and my positions, and while I've grown tired of defending myself against them, I can certainly understand why it's so unsettling for Rikae.

It's worrisome that some people exclusively focus on Rikae and me. Doing it is not necessarily suspicious, but in any case it is not sensible. One of these cases would be Menel. I think his tone is very innocent-sounding, but his one-sided approach toDay isn't going to actually help us. More diversity and objectivity, please.

Now that McCaber has spoken more, I can say I'm not worried by him. Gwathagor is somehow confusing to me, but I don't think he's too suspicious.

Something strikes me wrong about Legate. I cannot put my finger on it yet. I think that Rikae raised some good points on him in #184 which might get overlooked because of her defensiveness.

(ps: I only read til the end of page 5 yet)