The neglected race- The Drúedain

[The Might]

Yes, I also enjoy the stories, especially the Faithful Stone and I guess alongside Woodmen, Beornings and other secretive people they are my favourites as well.

Still, I am not sure if that is entirely legal, copying such a lard part of a copyrighted document I mean.
Think that might already be a bit too big to be seen as a quotation.
Still, I have nothing against this and it is a good read for anyone that does not own the UT.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by The Might

Still, I am not sure if that is entirely legal, copying such a lard part of a copyrighted document I mean.
Think that might already be a bit too big to be seen as a quotation.
Still, I have nothing against this and it is a good read for anyone that does not own the UT.

I was wandering this. I will take it down if I find out it is actually illegal. I was just trying to illustrate the point that that is all that there is on the Druedain.


edit: I just looked and it says on the front

Originally Posted by inside cover of the UT

Apart from any fair dealing for the puropse of private study, research, criticism or review, as permitted under the Copyright Act 1956 no part of thos publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by ay means, electronic, electrical, chemical, mechanical, optical, photocopying, recording or otherwise, without the prior permisssion of the copyright owner.

Ok, so I'm not sure exacty what that means, but if anyone is certain, I would like to find out. If anyone has any complaints I will remove the quote.


EDIT 2: OK, I don't care if it is legal or not, It is coming off in 2 days, so take your opputunity now to read it.


Edit3: Lard?

Edit 4: Ok, I cut it down, is that ok?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Normally, copyright laws allow pertinent quotes if they are not too long, but not entire articles such as the above. I am sure Downs members who do not own the books have the possibility of checking them out at the library, so I would ask you to summarize the chapter in your own words, or to quote only a few of the most important lines. That puts you - and the Downs forum! - on the safe side of the law. Thanks!

[The Might]

Yes, I believe that your edits now are ok.

Btw, a second ago I just had a thought.
I would like to discuss with you the way the Druedain are capable of transfering a part of their power to such stones as in the story of Aghan?
If I think about the essay Osanwe-kenta by Pengolodh I'd have to say it seems magical but probably has something to do with a special ability of the Druedain to somehow split a part of their soul and put it in a certain object.
How this exactly should work I have no idea and this is why I am asking for your opinion.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

TM, do you imagine that might be similar to the horcrux idea as told in the Harry Potter books?

[Eönwë]

Maybe it is a bit like if you are a very strict Muslim. They (at least, many do) believe that if you draw or make an image or something you will have to put a part of your soul into it.

Aghan even says:

Originally Posted by Aghan, THe Faithful Stone

If some power passes from you to a thing that you have made, then you must take a share in its hurts

but actually that doesn't help.

Maybe in order to make such good copies of real life, they needed to sacrifice some of their soul, or something like that, wich coincidently ties in with what I was saying about Islam, where it says something about when you make an imitation of something that is real, you are taking the job of the Creator, so you must give it life, and if you are not the Creator (God), then you cannot make its own soul and have to give it some of yours, and (I think) the closer you make it to real life the more you have to give.

PS. If I have offended anyone or said anything wrong please tell me and I will change this post

[littlemanpoet]

It seems that everything Tolkien wrote about came from some aspect of his professional life. He was unavoidably knowledgeable of the primitive peoples that had existed in the lands where the Germanic peoples lived that he spent most of his time studying. Whereas the Druedain do not directly resemble, say, Picts, or Basques, et cetera, there is a certain recognizability in them to such folk from our own past. There is the animistic element, though Tolkien has cleaned that up and removed from it any "witch doctor" connotations.

The Druedain seem to be depicted more or less after the fashion of primitive peoples with which we are familiar from our own studies of not so far distant history, such as the Aborigines of Australia, the Native Americans, and the natives of the Amazon as well. But their moral character seems a cut above. Which is interesting. I suppose Native Americans probably would have had an implacable hatred of Orcs; after all, they had an implacable hatred for what the European settlers did to their sacred lands....

[ArathornJax]

From an essay by Michael Martinez on Mysteries on Middle Earth:

"Tolkien liked the word "wose", by the way. He used it as one of Turin's nicknames (Saeros called him a woodwose in "Narn i Chin Hurin") and "woodwose" is the modern form of the Anglo-Saxon "wudu-wasa", "wild man of the woods" (another of Turin's nicknames). "Woses" is therefore intended to be a translation of the actual Rohirric word, "Rogin" (sing. Rog), with much the same meaning, "wild men of the woods". The Rohirrim were ignorant (as was Tolkien, when he wrote Lord of the Rings) of the Woses' ancient history." (and I ok with using a paragraph under a quote under Fair-Use and especially in this case where you can download the essay for free).

This notion of Wudu-wasa or woodwose is common in both Anglo-Saxon and in Europe for wildmen of the woods. The myth seems to be based around men who were extremely hairy and used a wooden club. So I think it is quite evident that Tolkien used yet again learning from his career to incorporate these people into the story.

As to why they are included I believe they are another example by Tolkien of adding such a rich diversity to Middle Earth and to his story. The Druedain for me are much like Australia's Aborigines people, yet in a deep sense, I think they reflect in a deeper way, man in a natural condition that is far more in touch with nature than "civilized man." In any case, they do add to the diversity of the people's of Middle Earth.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Maybe it is a bit like if you are a very strict Muslim. They (at least, many do) believe that if you draw or make an image or something you will have to put a part of your soul into it.

Aghan even says:


but actually that doesn't help.

Maybe in order to make such good copies of real life, they needed to sacrifice some of their soul, or something like that, wich coincidently ties in with what I was saying about Islam, where it says something about when you make an imitation of something that is real, you are taking the job of the Creator, so you must give it life, and if you are not the Creator (God), then you cannot make its own soul and have to give it some of yours, and (I think) the closer you make it to real life the more you have to give.

PS. If I have offended anyone or said anything wrong please tell me and I will change this post

Gee, this sounds a lot like something Tolkien would say about sub-creation. I wonder if he had that in mind when wrote this particular story.

[Ghazi]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Maybe it is a bit like if you are a very strict Muslim. They (at least, many do) believe that if you draw or make an image or something you will have to put a part of your soul into it.

PS. If I have offended anyone or said anything wrong please tell me and I will change this post

The power that the Druedain possessed was perceived as remarkable (a weak attempt on my part to connect this post with the topic of the thread). In Islam the making of images is seen as sinful. I have read that those who make images will be punished but I haven't read that they will be forced to provide a portion of their soul to their handiwork. I take no offense from your post. Thanks for asking.

[Eönwë]

They are many different ways to interpret things, and what I mentioned is just one.