Favourite Part of Unfinished Tales?

[Gordis]

I agree with Snowdog, Eldarion and Erendis is an awesome tale. As to character development, it is probably Tolkien's best. Reading other stories it would seem that Men in Tolkien World were as "holy" as Elves in "domestic matters". Well now we know they were not. *feels relieved*
I especially like Erendis's words:

Men in Numenor are half-Elves (said Erendis), especially the high men; they are neither the one nor the other. The long life that they were granted deceives them, and they dally in the world, children in mind, until age finds them – and then many only forsake play out of doors for play in their houses. They turn their play into great matters and great matters into play. They would be craftsmen and loremasters and heroes all at once; and women to them are but fires on the hearth – for others to tend, until they are tired of play in the evening. All things were made for their service: hills are for quarries, river to furnish water or to turn wheels, trees for boards, women for their body's need, or if fair to adorn their table and hearth; and children to be teased when nothing else is to do – but they would as soon play with their hounds' whelps. To all they are gracious and kind, merry as larks in the morning (if the sun shines); for they are never wrathful if they can avoid it. Men should be gay, they hold, generous as the rich, giving away what they do not need. Anger they show only when they become aware, suddenly, that there are other wills in the world beside their own. Then they will be as ruthless as the seawind if anything dare to withstand them.

I would have loved to see the LOTR Numenoreans a bit more like the above - and not so holy and wooden as Aragorn and Faramir.

[Alfirin]

I think part of the reason for the stifness in Aragorn's case is that as a result of being raised in Rivendell he was probably raised in the manner of an elf child and so aquired a very elvish way of behaving. Had Elrond not extended his protect and had Aragon been raised among the rangers, he might have turned out as boisterous and lusty as Boromir. As for Faramir, I think the constant need for his father's approval is what led to his overly formal way, he was too afraid to trangress to be at ease.

[Elmo]

It could be construed as irony that the person with the least Numenorean blood Boromir, acted the most like the Numenoreans described by Erendis unlike say Farimir or Aragorn where their Numenoreaness was apparently pure.

[Ghazi]

Originally Posted by Elmo

It could be construed as irony that the person with the least Numenorean blood Boromir, acted the most like the Numenoreans described by Erendis unlike say Farimir or Aragorn where their Numenoreaness was apparently pure.

Numenoreans were divided into 2 groups soon after the events described in "Aldarion and Erendis." Aragorn and Faramir typify the Faithful. I think Boromir reminds me of Aldarion, not evil, but more inclined toward that path.

[Gordis]

It could be construed as irony that the person with the least Numenorean blood Boromir, acted the most like the Numenoreans described by Erendis unlike say Farimir or Aragorn where their Numenoreaness was apparently pure.

I like Alfirin's answer to that (see above)

Basically both Aragorn and Faramir were Gandalf's pupils, the former, in addition, was brought up among Elves. I would say Aragorn was rather "atypical" Numenorean. Denethor and Boromir anf even Faramir were the typical ones - only, contrary to Tar-Aldarion, brought up in times of war and peril.

Of course, even among Numenoreans of Numenor there were several varieties:

I. Wise, peaceful, bookish lore-masters: Vardamir Nolimon, Tar-Elendil (sire of the Lords of Andunie), Aldarion's father Tar-Meneldur, Tar-Minastir, and the last of them - Tar-Palantir.

II. Proud, ruthless king-warrior type soon became predominating : Tar-Aldarion, then a female variety of it: Tar-Ancalime and likely Tar-Telperien, then most certainly Tar-Ciryatan (who even constrained his father to retire early), Tar-Atanamir (like his father proud and greedy of wealth), Tar-Calmacil, Ar-Adûnakhôr, Ar-Gimilzôr and Ar-Pharazôn.

III. And with time there appeared a third type - irresponsible lazy-bones, mostly occupied with pursuit of their little personal hobbies.
I think Tar-Telemmaitë (the mithril-lover) was the first one of those and his daugther Tar-Vanimeldë was the finest example of this attitude: "She gave little heed to ruling, loving rather music and dance; and the power was wielded by her husband Herucalmo" (this one of the 2st type, I bet). Some later Kings that left very little line in the Annales may have been of this ilk as well.

And - an interesting thing- in the history of Gondor we see these three types all over again.
Elendil (I type), Isildur (II), Anarion (I-?) Meneldil (II), Tarannon Falastur (II). Hyarmendacil I (II). Atanatar II Alcarin ‘the Glorious' was the first of the lazy-bones (III), Narmacil I (III). Minalcar-Rómendacil, a great king and politician, was maybe of the I type, not the II, as he used political measures in preference to force. And Eärnur the last King was clearly of the II type.

Maybe type I and II go back to Elrond and Elros respectively (of the latter we unfortunately know little). Yet I guess, unlike Elrond, he was of the second type - a great proud ruler, who wanted power and glory here and now, who forsook immortality for the crown and lordship. His brother was content to become a herald of Gil-Galad, but Elros wanted more.

Of course, Faramir was of the first variety and Boromir of the second. Denethor is a more difficult case. I have a suspicion that born in the first variety, more alike to Faramir, he had schooled himself to act like he was of the second. That may have brought an additional mental strain on him throughout his life. But Denethor believed that in times of war the second type was more needed.

As for Aragorn, he is so "Elvish" in his ways that I really fail to classify him. Maybe he was like Denethor - the first variety guy, but quite modified. Maybe he was of the second variety, with its drawbacks softened by the Elvish schooling.

[Eönwë]

Well personally, I love the Unfinished Tales, because they tell you all the stuff you alwyays wanted to know, except the really mysterious stuff (like Tom Bombadil).

And the Numenor bits show that however adavanced you are you still have problems. And that you can still be turned evil (with the right persuasion, or if you happen to have an evil demi-god you captured in prison and then make him your advisor).
The only criticism I can give about the Numenor parts is that though don't show enough of Valandil (The first of the faithful). He is more important (really) than many of the kings.

[Eönwë]

Also there is a bit which explains that the dwarves helped save Middle-Earth much more than it states in the book, and were almost as important as the others infighting off the evil (except that their battles were much further in the North)

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by Gordis

I agree with Snowdog, Eldarion and Erendis is an awesome tale. As to character development, it is probably Tolkien's best. Reading other stories it would seem that Men in Tolkien World were as "holy" as Elves in "domestic matters". Well now we know they were not. *feels relieved*
I especially like Erendis's words:

I would have loved to see the LOTR Numenoreans a bit more like the above - and not so holy and wooden as Aragorn and Faramir.

Yes, I think some of the Numenorean royal domestic reality could have been developed into both characters, but being limited in scope, I understand why it wasn't pursued as part of lotR. Of course, when Faramir is mentioning the Men of the West... one could wonder if some of the traits had passed on.

[Mithalwen]

I still love the thing I mentioned before but I have developed a new appreciation of the "Battles of the Fords of Isen" since I have lately taken more interest in the Rohirrim.

[mark12_30]

The little bit in Galadriel and Celeborn that deals with Amroth and Nimrodel.

But also ...

Eldarion and Erendis is an awesome tale.