Microphones in Middle-earth...the BBC Lord of the Rings - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

davem · 03-20-2008, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Having been listening again and I am so glad that the gift giving was included in full. It is something that could so easily have been sacrificed to some extent but having seen the threat to the Shire in the Mirror, the box of earth gives hope for healing of whatever wounds may be inflicted. It also preserves a link to the larger mythology since the lone mallorn in the shire and the renewed white tree in Gondor are images of the Two Trees of Valinor.

There are just so many 'little' things like that that a less sensitive adaptor would have thrown out. I was quite surprised to read that the BBC were negotiating the radio rights to LotR before they had an adaptor - or was that what happened? Was it the case that they were going for the rights & when they got them they would just have looked for a handy adaptor? I know Michael Bakewell was drafted in because he had adapted War & Peace for Radio 4, but was there anyone else in mind? I can't help thinking how lucky we were to have someone like Brian involved who actually loved the book & was prepared to include such little details.

Mithalwen · 03-20-2008, 01:00 PM

Another thing that strikes me is that if Boromir wasn't going to be killed anyway, you'd have to murder him. He is a constant source of negativity yet so up himself he is in danger of turning inside out. Had he survived I don't know how many companions he woudl have got to go to Minas Tirith. The film Boromir is more sympathetic in some ways (and that is from one of the few red-blooded women who isn't keen of Sean Bean)

Mithalwen · 03-20-2008, 04:02 PM

By the way..did I imagine it or does Aragorn speak of Caras Galadhrim?

davem · 03-20-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

By the way..did I imagine it or does Aragorn speak of Caras Galadhrim?

Quote:

Aragorn: Here is the heart of Elvendom on earth. Arwen vanimelda, namárië! Here my heart dwells ever, unless there be light beyond the dark roads that we must tread. Let us continue our journey to Caras Galadhrim, to the City of Green Towers.

All in the transcript http://www.tolkienradio.com/mirrorofgaladriel.html

MatthewM · 03-23-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Another thing that strikes me is that if Boromir wasn't going to be killed anyway, you'd have to murder him. He is a constant source of negativity yet so up himself he is in danger of turning inside out. Had he survived I don't know how many companions he woudl have got to go to Minas Tirith. The film Boromir is more sympathetic in some ways (and that is from one of the few red-blooded women who isn't keen of Sean Bean)

You are wrong. If Boromir had survived, he would have returned to Minas Tirith, alone if need be (as he said), and he would have saved many soliders from dying at Osgiliath, you better believe it. Turning inside out? What in the world are you talking about? Also who cares if he was negative? He was positive a good amount of times as well during the journey.

And they aren't talking about the overly sympathetic Bean portrayal here. I'm not a fan of MGC either. Book Boromir is the true Boromir, obviously.

Mithalwen · 03-24-2008, 02:08 PM

Matthew M, I will assume that you have had a sense of humour failure and were not intending to be rude...

It just struck me on listening to the tapes, which is what we are talking about that everything Boromir says is either pompous or negative, just what you want in a travelling companion.

Mithalwen · 03-24-2008, 03:17 PM

Excellent summary Dave. I have only heard the first side of this one and amazingly nearly four chapters are covered. Assuming that the original episodes correspond nearly with the cassette sides this would have been a Frodo-free episode. Obviously that tallies with the book but quite brave I would have thought for the adaptation to omit him for a week.

While we are only at the start of "The Two Towers" but nearly half way through the adaptation, I think that the rapid acceleration mentioned above is possible becasue so much has been set up already. We have heard Saruman, Gollum and Theoden - their own voices not reported speech giving the radio an advantage even over the book. And as Dave has already said the surviving members of the fellowship are more individual - Pippin's impetuosity is seen as a positive for once. The bond between Gimli and Legolas is demonstrated by the way they face up to Eomer together in defence of Galadriel. And Aragorn makes the decision that makes eventual success possible.

And we meet Treebeard. Maybe it it the speakers in the car but I nearly jumped out of my skin at the first HOOM....

TBC

Brian Sibley · 03-28-2008, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I have only heard the first side of this one and amazingly nearly four chapters are covered. Assuming that the original episodes correspond nearly with the cassette sides this would have been a Frodo-free episode. Obviously that tallies with the book but quite brave I would have thought for the adaptation to omit him for a week.

I've been off the forum for some while and have been playing catch-up. I used to get e-mails telling me when a new posting appeared, but, for some reason, they've stopped...

Anyway, on the subject of Frodo's absence: this is one of the effects of the re-editing of the series from 26 half-hours to 13 one hours. I wasn't involved in or consulted about this process, but I imagine that a couple of Frodo scenes would have been shifted from one half hour to the next so that the scenes could run longer in the hour-format.

I really wish it were possible for people to listen in the original format, but alas...

Brian Sibley · 03-28-2008, 05:24 AM

"Always be careful, my boy, what you make up. Life's more full of things made up on the Spur of the Moment than most people realise. Beware of the Spur of the Moment. It may turn & rend you." Frank Baker: 'Miss Hargreaves'.

Dave - Nice to see you quoting Miss H!

davem · 03-28-2008, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

Anyway, on the subject of Frodo's absence: this is one of the effects of the re-editing of the series from 26 half-hours to 13 one hours. I wasn't involved in or consulted about this process, but I imagine that a couple of Frodo scenes would have been shifted from one half hour to the next so that the scenes could run longer in the hour-format.

I really wish it were possible for people to listen in the original format, but alas...

My memory is so hazy regarding the original broadcasts - I only managed to tape teh last three episodes & I've long since lost the tapes

. Considering the number of times I've listened to this version I was quite surprised how long it took before we got to Frodo & Sam - not quite as long as the book, but it started to feel that way! I did like the longer scenes with Frodo/Sam/Gollum though. I know the episodes were re-edited again when the film was released to bring them more in line with the books - we're they actually edited to match the books, with the Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli/Merry & Pippin storyline complete & then the Frodo/Sam/Gollum storyline following on? I wouldn't mind hearing it done that way.

Quote:

"Always be careful, my boy, what you make up. Life's more full of things made up on the Spur of the Moment than most people realise. Beware of the Spur of the Moment. It may turn & rend you." Frank Baker: 'Miss Hargreaves'.

Dave - Nice to see you quoting Miss H!

Well, you put me onto that one (via the Church House recording). I'd love to hear your adaptation - though I bet it was never made available... don't want to risk Esty's ire by taking the thread off topic, but I'm wondering if Tolkien read Miss H. Its certainly the kind of thing that he was interested in (cf Flieger's 'A Question of Time') & the whole idea of the power of imagination changing reality has echoes in his time travel writings (Notion Club Papers especially). I think the situation as regards getting hold of the novel is about as bad as you indicated when you spoke 20 odd years ago - I got a second hand copy from the limited edition of 300 which came out a few years back & it cost me £30

- well worth the money though. I recomend the book wholeheartedly, btw.

And for anyone who wants to know more about the book, here's a nice essay by Brian http://www.frankbaker.co.uk/sibley.htm

Mithalwen · 03-28-2008, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Sibley

Anyway, on the subject of Frodo's absence: this is one of the effects of the re-editing of the series from 26 half-hours to 13 one hours. I wasn't involved in or consulted about this process, but I imagine that a couple of Frodo scenes would have been shifted from one half hour to the next so that the scenes could run longer in the hour-format.

I really wish it were possible for people to listen in the original format, but alas...

That is interesting - since side ends so often correspond with a bit of a cliff hanger I assumend that only the joins were amended. One thing I meant to ask was if you always knew that the series recordings would to the public sold or if this is a happy byproduct of BBC enterprises. I remember coveting the music casette and my mother claiming nothing had taking her so much trouble as obtaining it for me for Christmas. I don't remember the full recording being advertised then (I heard the 13 episode version so I suppose this was 82).

Much as I love the music recording, I do like the way the actors do their own songs in the actual dramatisation. Treebeard and Sam are so well cast but both actors sing their songs very well - were you looking specifically for actors who could sing or would you have dubbed in singers had it been necessary?

03-20-2008, 01:00 PM	#2
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Another thing that strikes me is that if Boromir wasn't going to be killed anyway, you'd have to murder him. He is a constant source of negativity yet so up himself he is in danger of turning inside out. Had he survived I don't know how many companions he woudl have got to go to Minas Tirith. The film Boromir is more sympathetic in some ways (and that is from one of the few red-blooded women who isn't keen of Sean Bean) __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-20-2008, 04:02 PM	#3
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	By the way..did I imagine it or does Aragorn speak of Caras Galadhrim? __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-24-2008, 02:08 PM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Matthew M, I will assume that you have had a sense of humour failure and were not intending to be rude... It just struck me on listening to the tapes, which is what we are talking about that everything Boromir says is either pompous or negative, just what you want in a travelling companion. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-24-2008, 03:17 PM	#7
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Excellent summary Dave. I have only heard the first side of this one and amazingly nearly four chapters are covered. Assuming that the original episodes correspond nearly with the cassette sides this would have been a Frodo-free episode. Obviously that tallies with the book but quite brave I would have thought for the adaptation to omit him for a week. While we are only at the start of "The Two Towers" but nearly half way through the adaptation, I think that the rapid acceleration mentioned above is possible becasue so much has been set up already. We have heard Saruman, Gollum and Theoden - their own voices not reported speech giving the radio an advantage even over the book. And as Dave has already said the surviving members of the fellowship are more individual - Pippin's impetuosity is seen as a positive for once. The bond between Gimli and Legolas is demonstrated by the way they face up to Eomer together in defence of Galadriel. And Aragorn makes the decision that makes eventual success possible. And we meet Treebeard. Maybe it it the speakers in the car but I nearly jumped out of my skin at the first HOOM.... TBC __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

03-28-2008, 05:24 AM	#9
Brian Sibley Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London Posts: 54	"Always be careful, my boy, what you make up. Life's more full of things made up on the Spur of the Moment than most people realise. Beware of the Spur of the Moment. It may turn & rend you." Frank Baker: 'Miss Hargreaves'. Dave - Nice to see you quoting Miss H!