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Old 04-07-2008, 12:43 PM   #1
Sauron the White
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I have no problem at all with anyone presenting ideas or theories or suppositions or assumptions. Until they are presented as facts when they are otherwise.

I did not edit out the First, second , third points of Macaulre but presented them complete. While he was talking about landing on the docks, the same reasoning could have applied also Smaug being anywhere near water where he could misstep. That was my point which I think was a fair one.

If Smaug landed on shore, and walked across the big bridge, is it not realistic to expect that he would be met with hostle action from some of the townspeople trying to stop him? And could not that hostile attack also cause the dragon to "misstep" on that bridge and fall into the very water that he is suppose to fear? I think that is reasonable and that was my point.

Last edited by Sauron the White; 04-07-2008 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 04-07-2008, 01:04 PM   #2
Rikae
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Originally Posted by Sauron the White View Post
While he was talking about landing on the docks, the same reasoning could have applied also Smaug being anywhere near water where he could misstep. That was my point which I think was a fair one.
Well, this is what you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by STW to Mac
If I may quote you "one mis-step and Smaug would end up in the water and his attack would have been foiled". That applies to the bridge also. Or do you think a thin railing perhaps three feet high would restrain him if he lost his balance?
Here, you ask Mac if he thinks the railing would restrain Smaug if he "lost his balance". Are you arguing that Smaug would be just as surefooted in the process of landing as he would while walking? Sure, that's possible - but the point is, it is also quite possible he wasn't, and the this makes more sense in the light of the text itself.

Quote:
The bridge was gone, and his enemies were on an island in deep water too deep and dark and cool for his liking. If he plunged into it, a vapour and a steam would arise enough to cover all the land with a mist for
days; but the lake was mightier than he, it would quench him before he could pass through.
Ok, apparently it is significant (in Smaug's being foiled) that the bridge is gone, so clearly he had plans involving the bridge. What could those plans be?
"His foes were on an island in deep water" - clearly the water is a problem - which it would not be if he preferred to attack by air.
"if he plunged into it" - it appears he has a choice between his plan involving the bridge, risking "plunging into" the water, and what he subsequently does (attack by air).
"it would quench him before he could pass through". Now, there is no sense in saying this unless, were it otherwise, he would try to "pass through" - which means, if the water would not quench him, he would have attempted a land (or water) attack.

Now, this may not be the best possible interpretation of the passage, but I haven't heard a more plausible one proposed.
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Old 04-07-2008, 01:10 PM   #3
Rikae
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Originally Posted by Sauron the White View Post
If Smaug landed on shore, and walked across the big bridge, is it not realistic to expect that he would be met with hostle action from some of the townspeople trying to stop him? And could not that hostile attack also cause the dragon to "misstep" on that bridge and fall into the very water that he is suppose to fear? I think that is reasonable and that was my point.
I really think you overestimate the abilities of a handful of Lakemen - whatever number could fit on the bridge at once - facing toward Smaug's head (and fire).

Last edited by Rikae; 04-07-2008 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:17 PM   #4
McCaber
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On Smaug fearing to cross the bridge:

Well, dragon legs seem very stable and low to the ground. For someone to cause this misstep, he would have to get past the fire-breathing, sharp-toothed, hungry head of the dragon to apply some force to get Smaug off balance. I don't think that Laketown had any warriors with that sort of strength and toughness.
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:20 PM   #5
Sauron the White
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Smaug himself could make a sudden move while under attack and execute that "misstep" all on his own. An arrow in the eye or near it could also cause him to move rather quickly and misstep crashing into the water.

Why could his misstep occur only on the docks and not on the bridge? It would seem that both present the same problem.
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Old 04-07-2008, 03:33 PM   #6
Rikae
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Why could his misstep occur only on the docks and not on the bridge? It would seem that both present the same problem.
Who said that? What was said was that it would be more likely to occur during landing than while walking.
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