Tolkien & killling?

[DaughterofVana]

Wouldn't you say that there were and are many wonderful men and women in the world, leading totally responsible, helpful, good lives, who are not religious?

Ooooh yeah. Frodo had no knowledge of Elbereth and the like (outside of elf-songs), yet he was still responsible, helpful, and self-sacrificing in his path. (Wow, look at me, I'm relating it back to the book.... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] ) The thing is... where did he get the idea that this was "good" behavior? How did he get the definition of "good"? That definition, like aragornreborn said, came from outside the grasp of man ("beyond man").

I believe that a generally good person may be good because they made their own rules...

Ah. But are those rules that the person made for himself/herself "good"? If the rules are not towards the manmade viewpoint of "good" (which reflects the spiritual "good" as aragornreborn said), then are they really "good" in themselves?

... or because God made their rules for them. As long as they follow them, they can be good people.

But where did this definition of "good" come from? Everything is well and good in this viewpoint, until it comes to this.

Being "religious" does not make a person good in itself. Many, many atrocities in the name of religion (Christian and otherwise) is to thank for that. Perversion of a good thing--"evil"--is where those people crossed the line from being actually working *for* their respective Gods and wandered into the realm of corruption, instead working for themselves and their own political/social viewpoints. That should be diffirenciated. And, in the same spirit, people who are "good" because it makes them feel good and because they are viewed in a better light by their peers is different than a person who does good because it *is* good. Sure, it results in the same thing, but the intentions behind it are different.

I'm sorry. I'm selling you guys and myself short because I have to stop here. Please forgive me and my stupid time constraints and limited computer access. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Hopefully someone else will pick up the slack.

-'Vana