What's up with Celeborn? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Galin · 05-22-2008, 01:54 PM

Keep in mind though that Mr. Rateliff is referring there to the time of writing this chapter of The Hobbit, noting he uses an older term Ilkorindi in this context.

In another note Rateliff mentions ideas with respect to the published Silmarillion (thus those ideas taken up by CJRT for the edited version), and there states that the Wood-elves seem to be 'a mix of Umanyar and Avari' -- and is here not asserting that the ultimate scenario concerning these Wood-elves paints them as specifically Sindarin.

William Cloud Hicklin · 05-22-2008, 02:53 PM

Morth, at the time Tolkien wote The Hobbit the term Sindar had not been invented- and indeed, while it's clear from the Turin-poem that Doriath had evolved a much higher culture than Tinwelint's primitive Artanor in the Lost Tales, it would be a long time befoe T tried to differentiate the vague catchall Ilkorindi 'not of Kor', i.e. all Elves who never went to Valinor.

Morthoron · 05-22-2008, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Morth, at the time Tolkien wote The Hobbit the term Sindar had not been invented- and indeed, while it's clear from the Turin-poem that Doriath had evolved a much higher culture than Tinwelint's primitive Artanor in the Lost Tales, it would be a long time befoe T tried to differentiate the vague catchall Ilkorindi 'not of Kor', i.e. all Elves who never went to Valinor.

Galin and WCH:

You know what's absolutely hilarious, I totally gapped regarding the chronology of the various books' publications, and was entirely caught up in the actual history of Middle-earth as it has evolved over time. I believe this is due in part from having imbibed far too much in the 1970's.

Ummm...were you going to eat that donut? Do you mind if I have it? You wouldn't happen to have any corn chips and bean dip, would you?

*The Dark Elf stares blankly*

Okay, what were we talking about again?

05-22-2008, 02:53 PM	#2
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Morth, at the time Tolkien wote The Hobbit the term Sindar had not been invented- and indeed, while it's clear from the Turin-poem that Doriath had evolved a much higher culture than Tinwelint's primitive Artanor in the Lost Tales, it would be a long time befoe T tried to differentiate the vague catchall Ilkorindi 'not of Kor', i.e. all Elves who never went to Valinor. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

05-22-2008, 01:54 PM	#1
Galin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,036	Keep in mind though that Mr. Rateliff is referring there to the time of writing this chapter of The Hobbit, noting he uses an older term Ilkorindi in this context. In another note Rateliff mentions ideas with respect to the published Silmarillion (thus those ideas taken up by CJRT for the edited version), and there states that the Wood-elves seem to be 'a mix of Umanyar and Avari' -- and is here not asserting that the ultimate scenario concerning these Wood-elves paints them as specifically Sindarin.