Subject for the Second film?

[Sauron the White]

Yes, I too would like a bit more in the way of detail.
WCH - are you saying that - based on what you know - CT would be unhappy or upset if the film rights reverted to him and/or the Estate?

[Mithalwen]

Surely it is obvious he means rubbish to the "Christopher Tolkien is a miserable old git who only wants to spoil everyone's fun" cliche?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Precisely, Mith.

Note also that the film rights aren't going to revert to the Estate: even if the court grants the plaintiffs' petition, all it means is that the Estate has the option to remove them from New Line/TW: and thus revert them back to Zaentz and MGM/UA.

[Eönwë]

A slightly different question- Do you think the Tolkien Estate would ever be willing to sell rights to the UT?

That would mean that they could use things that are not in The Hobbit or Lotr but are realted to it.

My guess is no, though.


But think of it: The dwarves' battle in the North (During the WotR)

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

A slightly different question- Do you think the Tolkien Estate would ever be willing to sell rights to the UT?

"Ever" is a long time. But certainly not Christopher, and the impression I get (which admittedly is merely that) is that Adam Tolkien feels the same way; at any rate, that is only one vote (alongside Baillie and Michael George Tolkien).

[Mithalwen]

Maybe if with new rights they could get the clout that say JK Rowling has over the Harry Potter movies they might release parts. I think Aldarion and Erendis could make a great film as one of the stories with real passion. I doubt they would ever just sell the lot - so much of it is undefinitive.

Of course since they are hamstringing the Hobbit to fit in with LOTR it may be closer to the Quest of Erebor .... and the quest for the ring will surely feature in the hotchpotch movie ... but thinking about that is far too depressing

I adore UT for all the extra information but I am not sure that there is much else that would really have enough for a stand alone movie. The Narn and Tuor are not complete in UT, Does the pact of Cirion and Eorl have the impact alone? If you separate it from its fulfilment at the Pellennor? If you remove the Disaster of the Gladden Fields and Orophir /Thranduil at the Battle of the last Alliance from the wider history of the Rings of Power is there a movie in them? Not sure.... wonderful episodes if you were doing a great epic tv serial but maybe not a film.

[Sauron the White]

So, Christopher Tolkien has no interest, legal or otherwise, in getting the film rights back?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

So, Christopher Tolkien has no interest, legal or otherwise, in getting the film rights back?

Has he ever expressed any? That's what I asked. I've never seen any statement from him even mentioning a desire to have the movie rights back, but I'd be interested to know if he had.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I adore UT for all the extra information but I am not sure that there is much else that would really have enough for a stand alone movie. The Narn and Tuor are not complete in UT, Does the pact of Cirion and Eorl have the impact alone? If you separate it from its fulfilment at the Pellennor? If you remove the Disaster of the Gladden Fields and Orophir /Thranduil at the Battle of the last Alliance from the wider history of the Rings of Power is there a movie in them? Not sure.... wonderful episodes if you were doing a great epic tv serial but maybe not a film.

What I mean is that of course you can use the Quest of Erebor, and I think that maybe for movie 2 they could talk about the dwarf wars going on at the same time, but yes, you are right (but maybe that would be a reason that the Estate would be less reluctant to sell the rights).

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Yes, I too would like a bit more in the way of detail.
WCH - are you saying that - based on what you know - CT would be unhappy or upset if the film rights reverted to him and/or the Estate?

Where's this idea that the Estate wants, or even expects, to get the film rights back come from? All I've seen is the following statement from the Tolkien Trust:

The complaint seeks, among other things, in excess of $150 million in compensatory damages, as well as punitive damages, and a declaration from the Court that the plaintiffs have a right to terminate any further rights New Line may have to the Tolkien works under the agreements, including The Hobbit, due to the serious and material nature of the breach of the agreements.

which I interpret to mean that if New Line don't hand over what they owe then the Trust don't want New Line to be able to make any more movies based on Tolkien's work - which at worst would mean that Zaentz would be free to sell them to any other studio (who would then be free to hire Jackson & Del Toro, or whoever they wanted, to produce/direct.

If anyone has seen any statement from Christopher or anyone else associated with the Trust/Estate that they have any intention, or even desire, to get back the movie rights I'd be interested to hear it.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Moreover, neither Saul Zaentz nor MGM/UA are named as defendants in the lawsuit, which means that they cannot have rights taken away.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by davem

which I interpret to mean that if New Line don't hand over what they owe then the Trust don't want New Line to be able to make any more movies based on Tolkien's work - which at worst would mean that Zaentz would be free to sell them to any other studio (who would then be free to hire Jackson & Del Toro, or whoever they wanted, to produce/direct.

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Moreover, neither Saul Zaentz nor MGM/UA are named as defendants in the lawsuit, which means that they cannot have rights taken away.

I wasn't referring to the current lawsuit (Tolkien Family Trust vs NewLine) in my post (the one WCH referred to as rubbish); as a matter of fact, I haven't discussed the current lawsuit anywhere in this thread, thank you. If you harken back to what Sauron and I were actually discussing, it regarded the Tolkien Enterprise license, and what it specifically entails (or does not entail -- from a theoretic standpoint, obviously).

Originally Posted by davem

If anyone has seen any statement from Christopher or anyone else associated with the Trust/Estate that they have any intention, or even desire, to get back the movie rights I'd be interested to hear it.

Actually, I'd be more intrigued to see a quote from C. Tolkien stating that has no interest or desire in retrieving the film rights; however, if he did so desire, from a legal standpoint he'd be daft to utter it in public.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Actually, I'd be more intrigued to see a quote from C. Tolkien stating that has no interest or desire in retrieving the film rights;

Why on earth expect CRT (or anyone) to affirmatively state a negative? Do we routinely ask people to tell us everything they don't plan to do? Be reasonable.

Btw, I didn't call your whole post rubbish, merely the perpetuation of the bogeyman caricature-Christopher.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Why on earth expect CRT (or anyone) to affirmatively state a negative? Do we routinely ask people to tell us everything they don't plan to do? Be reasonable.

Again, from a legal standpoint, I don't believe C. Tolkien would answer the question directly in either case. Would it be unreasonable for him to desire the film rights? On the contrary, he would be a lunatic if he didn't harbor interest in the return of the license. I would be quite amazed if he had never discussed what options the Family Trust had in that regard with his attorneys. But that is something that would never be discussed publicly, would it?

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

the perpetuation of the bogeyman caricature-Christopher.

I referred to him as curmudgeonly, which by any stretch of the imagination he is (I have on occassion referred to myself as a curmudgeon, so I don't view the term as a pejorative). I admire Mr. Tolkien's adherence to principle regarding his father's legacy.

[Sauron the White]

In playing poker, and in dealings of serious nature, playing your cards close to the vest and not alerting the others to your true intentions are part and parcel of playing the game to your ultimate advantage.

Is there any reason why, at this point in time, CT needs to publicly announce that he wants control of the film rights back? If he sees the future legal proceedings going his way, can he not make adjustments to his legal strategy which go beyond what he has said so far through his attorneys?