The Barrow-Downs? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eönwë · 05-31-2008, 07:34 AM

Well, this is definitely one of my favourite parts of the book (How can you hate Tom?!), so I don't think it could be done without.

Also, it is quite interesting to see that just outside the nice protection of the Sire, there is some darkness, a little shade of evil. And Tom builds them up for aan adventure. While Tom is there it is a "safe" adventure to prepare them for what is to come.

William Cloud Hicklin · 06-01-2008, 07:42 AM

Incidentally, the Bombadil chapters existed largely because Tolkien was out of ideas but had the Bombadil-poem around, which included Willowman, Goldberry, and the Barrow-wight: instant narrative.

Remember (amazingly enough)- when T first wrote that section he had only the vaguest idea where "Bingo" was going and why! (his ring was still one of many, not yet The Ring.)

Eönwë · 06-01-2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Incidentally, the Bombadil chapters existed largely because Tolkien was out of ideas but had the Bombadil-poem around, which included Willowman, Goldberry, and the Barrow-wight: instant narrative.

Remember (amazingly enough)- when T first wrote that section he had only the vaguest idea where "Bingo" was going and why! (his ring was still one of many, not yet The Ring.)

That doesn't make any less amazing, or good, for that matter.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 06-01-2008, 11:59 AM

It's not a question of having the rest of The Lord of the Rings ready and then inserting the Old Forest bits. As William points out, most of the story was 'discovered' after this episode. Tolkien didn't reflect on the defeat of Sauron and suddenly feel the urge to add an extra chapter on some dancing hermit.

But other people have explained well why it works; and I for (another) one love Tom and Goldberry!

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 06-11-2008, 12:24 PM

Tom is important to the story because of his rescuing the hobbits twice. The Old Forest is important because of it's introducing the hobbits to danger, but not necessarily the danger of Sauron. It lets the hobbits know that there are other things that can go wrong not because Frodo posses the Ring. The Barrow-Downs and the Barrow Wight are there to know a bit about the history and having Frodo basically calling for help by himself. And then having Bombadil. Goldberry (one of my favourites) is important because she is Tom's 'Partner in Crime' and probably makes him stronger per se. The whole section of the story is important because of the mini adventure that prepares the hobbits for their bigger adventures without Tom there to help.

MatthewM · 06-11-2008, 12:55 PM

I didn't read the thread, but let me tell you that the Hobbit's journey from Crickhollow to the Barrow-Downs is truly one of the reasons why I love Tolkien. That is how powerful those chapters are, for me.

alatar · 06-11-2008, 01:08 PM

And you get that gem of an insight into the character of Frodo (and the others on the Good side). In the Barrow, Frodo could have left his friends for dead, and the Wise would (maybe) have agreed with the sacrifice, but in the end, Frodo chose to stay and fight the darkness.

05-31-2008, 07:34 AM	#1
Eönwë Flame Imperishable Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Right here Posts: 3,928	Well, this is definitely one of my favourite parts of the book (How can you hate Tom?!), so I don't think it could be done without. Also, it is quite interesting to see that just outside the nice protection of the Sire, there is some darkness, a little shade of evil. And Tom builds them up for aan adventure. While Tom is there it is a "safe" adventure to prepare them for what is to come. __________________ Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place

06-01-2008, 07:42 AM	#2
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	Incidentally, the Bombadil chapters existed largely because Tolkien was out of ideas but had the Bombadil-poem around, which included Willowman, Goldberry, and the Barrow-wight: instant narrative. Remember (amazingly enough)- when T first wrote that section he had only the vaguest idea where "Bingo" was going and why! (his ring was still one of many, not yet The Ring.) __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.

06-01-2008, 11:59 AM	#4
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	It's not a question of having the rest of The Lord of the Rings ready and then inserting the Old Forest bits. As William points out, most of the story was 'discovered' after this episode. Tolkien didn't reflect on the defeat of Sauron and suddenly feel the urge to add an extra chapter on some dancing hermit. But other people have explained well why it works; and I for (another) one love Tom and Goldberry! __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

06-11-2008, 12:24 PM	#5
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	So this is what I'm gathering Tom is important to the story because of his rescuing the hobbits twice. The Old Forest is important because of it's introducing the hobbits to danger, but not necessarily the danger of Sauron. It lets the hobbits know that there are other things that can go wrong not because Frodo posses the Ring. The Barrow-Downs and the Barrow Wight are there to know a bit about the history and having Frodo basically calling for help by himself. And then having Bombadil. Goldberry (one of my favourites) is important because she is Tom's 'Partner in Crime' and probably makes him stronger per se. The whole section of the story is important because of the mini adventure that prepares the hobbits for their bigger adventures without Tom there to help. __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

06-11-2008, 12:55 PM	#6
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 628	I didn't read the thread, but let me tell you that the Hobbit's journey from Crickhollow to the Barrow-Downs is truly one of the reasons why I love Tolkien. That is how powerful those chapters are, for me. __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

06-11-2008, 01:08 PM	#7
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	And you get that gem of an insight into the character of Frodo (and the others on the Good side). In the Barrow, Frodo could have left his friends for dead, and the Wise would (maybe) have agreed with the sacrifice, but in the end, Frodo chose to stay and fight the darkness. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.