Who do you reckon is the braver race in general, men or elves? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elmo · 06-02-2008, 11:13 AM

That's why I mentioned the Dark Elves. They don't get reincarnated according to Morgoth's Ring and they probably don't know what's going to happen when they die either. So Dark Elves in my opinion are the bravest of the lot.

Morwen · 06-02-2008, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo

That's why I mentioned the Dark Elves. They don't get reincarnated according to Morgoth's Ring and they probably don't know what's going to happen when they die either. So Dark Elves in my opinion are the bravest of the lot.

Even if they are not reincarnated, is it not still the fate of the Dark Elves to endure for as long as Arda endures? Even though they no longer have physical bodies would their spirits/souls/what have you (I can't call the elvish name to mind at the moment) - would these not still be around, in the Halls of Mandos or elsewhere? Is there any thing in Morgoth's Ring or any where else on this?

Groin Redbeard · 06-02-2008, 04:43 PM

This is an interesting question. Are men braver because they risk their already short life just by going into battle, or are the elves who risk their infinite life by going into battle. My opinion is that man is braver than an elf. Honor, courage, a selflessness is what makes a great warrior. A man can only live for a short time therefore he will try to win as much honor in battle as possible so that he can be remembered even after his death, whereas an elf would not be as proned to do so seeing as he can live longer if he is simply careful.

Also the uncertainty after death is an excellent point made by the Might, elves know their destiny after death and men do not. This uncertainty is certainly enough to stall death as long as possible, therefore making courageous acts in battle all the more memorable.

Morthoron · 06-02-2008, 07:54 PM

The Elves were braver. They were not prone to panic and fearful flight like men, nor did they betray their comrades in battle as men are sometimes wont to do.

Groin Redbeard · 06-02-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

The Elves were braver. They were not prone to panic and fearful flight like men, nor did they betray their comrades in battle as men are sometimes wont to do.

Need I mention the betrayel and fall of the great fortress city of Gondolin, it was an elf who betrayed them.

Morthoron · 06-02-2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Need I mention the betrayel and fall of the great fortress city of Gondolin, it was an elf who betrayed them.

Maeglin was a single individual (and by no means representative of Elves in general); however, I was referring to betrayal in battle by large numbers of men, such as Uldor and his entire host of Easterlings in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears. If you are referring to betrayal outside of battle (as Maeglin would be), then there are the cursed army of men of the Dimholt who betrayed Isildur.

I can't recall an entire army of elves being turned in a horde of walking dead due their cowardly betrayal, can you?

Elmo · 06-03-2008, 03:09 AM

Well a lot of the Elves did get turned into the undead, when they refused to go to Mandos when they died. Maybe that isn't cowardice but a lack of faith. Two different things believe it or not.

06-02-2008, 11:13 AM	#1
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	That's why I mentioned the Dark Elves. They don't get reincarnated according to Morgoth's Ring and they probably don't know what's going to happen when they die either. So Dark Elves in my opinion are the bravest of the lot. __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.

06-02-2008, 04:43 PM	#3
Groin Redbeard Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Facing the world's troubles with Christ's hope! Posts: 1,635	This is an interesting question. Are men braver because they risk their already short life just by going into battle, or are the elves who risk their infinite life by going into battle. My opinion is that man is braver than an elf. Honor, courage, a selflessness is what makes a great warrior. A man can only live for a short time therefore he will try to win as much honor in battle as possible so that he can be remembered even after his death, whereas an elf would not be as proned to do so seeing as he can live longer if he is simply careful. Also the uncertainty after death is an excellent point made by the Might, elves know their destiny after death and men do not. This uncertainty is certainly enough to stall death as long as possible, therefore making courageous acts in battle all the more memorable. __________________ I heard the bells on Christmas Day. Their old, familiar carols play. And wild and sweet the words repeatof peace on earth, good-will to men! ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

06-02-2008, 07:54 PM	#4
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	The Elves were braver. They were not prone to panic and fearful flight like men, nor did they betray their comrades in battle as men are sometimes wont to do. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

06-03-2008, 03:09 AM	#7
Elmo Pittodrie Poltergeist Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: trying to find that warm and winding lane again Posts: 633	Well a lot of the Elves did get turned into the undead, when they refused to go to Mandos when they died. Maybe that isn't cowardice but a lack of faith. Two different things believe it or not. __________________ As Beren looked into her eyes within the shadows of her hair, The trembling starlight of the skies he saw there mirrored shimmering.