Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[the phantom]

Anyway, it's almost 2 and I have to get up early for work. I'll try and check in then but I won't really be able to post much till around lunch time (6 hours before the deadline).

If you want to continue suspecting me, Roa, go ahead, but please let this particular issue go. I literally find it insulting that someone would think I would make a decision like that- pass up several nights of free kills for a completely unnecessary stunt. So help me but if you continue on this I might just try and get you lynched despite the fact that I think you're probably innocent.

Plus, do you really expect the GW to leave me alone much longer if he didn't already scry me or dream me last night? Please. You know good and well that the GW has been thinking about me more than anyone thus far. If I'm a WW he'll scry me back to the good side. If I'm the EW then you can't lynch me anyway and he'll challenge me on Day 4.

I'm sleepy. See you later.

[Lalaith]

I'm sorry, I've got to dash off to, um, a confectioners convention today, (see admin thread) and I'm already late.

Volo would not have dreamt anything the first night, would he? So there's no point going through his posts for Seer hints?

I am still uncomfortable about Aganzir from yesterday and wish I had the time to look at her posts more closely. There was flip-flopping going on, I think. Of course, I've never played with her before so don't know her playing style.
Sorry, I would like to post more thoughts but I just don't have time.

[Roa_Aoife]

The more I read, worse phantom seems (now that I'm really focusing). Aside from the post where he blatantly insists that looking for werewolves is a fruitless activity, there's more:

Originally Posted by phantom

Shhh... don't pursue that subject any further.

You are right of course that the WWs might have been given certain... erm... directions... I don't want to be too specific here... I'd rather not have people start posting their thoughts on the matter (ie giving examples). It might be better just to watch for it, for mentioning a specific maneuver may cause the WWs not to use it, where as if we'd keep mum they might do it and then we can spot it if you see what I mean.

Here he actively discourages discussions by the villagers while admitting or even elaborating, if you will, on what the EW may have told the wolves. For example, telling a wolf to intentionally mislead the villagers or act in a cobblerish way. Especially if the EW has faith that this particular wolf would be able to bluff his way out of getting lycnhed.

Originally Posted by phantom

First, the EW didn't actually pick his three WWs- he submitted a list of names, and three people off the list were randomly assigned to be WWs.

In addition, the "who" doesn't matter nearly so much as the "how many". If I was the EW I'd take six mediocre WWs over two brilliant ones any day. In other words the EW will simply pick people that he thinks are not likely to be scried or lynched. If he picks well then the game is his.

Sure, on one hand if he scries me then I can make all kinds of devilish suggestions etc, but if I'm a likely lynch/scry target then it isn't worth it.

In this post, phantom tries to make it seem as though the EW's werewolf choice was random, when it isn't. The list of candidates was not that long, and even if there was overlap, it's unlikely that it occured more than once. So, more faulty reasoning. Next, he states that the EW would probably pick safe wolves rather than brilliant ones, which conveniently discludes him as a candidate, a behavior I have always found suspicious. Finally, he admits that he could make devilish suggestions (such as he has been) if picked to be a wolf, but then down plays the idea as too risky. Because we all know that phantom often finds things to be to risky for his flavor. :rollseyes:


In post 91 (which is very long), he changes his story from "We should look for the EW" to:

Oh, and as far as deciding who we should try and lynch, the EW or WWs, does it really matter much who we gun for?

In my opinion we're just as likely to lynch a WW gunning for the EW as we are if we were actually trying to lynch a WW. It's not like we have any concrete knowledge to work with. On Day 1 in particular we're just taking a blind shot in the dark. Heck, if we'd purposefully try and lynch the Seer we'd probably have just as good a chance of lynching a WW.

A sudden shift after coming back to find that his previous statement had garnered more suspicion (and a vote). Then he posts some statistics that make seem as though it's better for an innocent to get lynched on Day 1 because it raises our chances of finding a wolf on Day 2.

Then in the same post:

This is the point I'm trying to make on the issue of finding WWs as opposed to finding the EW. If we find the EW early, we probably win. If we don't find the EW, it doesn't matter how many WWs we find, we'll still lose.

His next post says this:

Really? Hmm... don't you actually know Agan? If so then I'd be inclined to trust your opinion of her. Unless of course you are the EW and Agan is one of your WWs and you are throwing the wolf to the lambs to make yourself look good.

But when the same idea is suggested against his favor, he says this:

N...O.... NO.

Not at that stage of the game.

No way.

The goal for the EW and WWs was to not get any of their team lynched yesterday, for if they were successful it would mean likely getting an extra kill the next night and every night after that.

Day 1 was not the day to pull stunts. Absolutely not.

Then there's posting like this:

But what does Agan think of Lommy?

And what do Rikae and Mac think about each other?

He avoids expressing opinions, but encourages others to look closely at each other, a behavior I have seen in very crafty wolves when they want to turn the village against itself while keeping out of the fray. (Anguiriel did this in my very first game, and phantom is at least as clever as he.)

Suppose that one of our extremely busy members is actually not that busy and has been lying through their teeth on the admin thread this whole time. If that is the case then essentially this game is already over, because we simply will not find them out because of the fact that we have to rule someone out!

After all he's said in favor of finding the EW, here he insinuates that finding the EW is fairly hopeless as well. So, we can't find wolves, and we can't find the EW, according to phantom.

I'm quite certain that he did.

I had already planned to go back over today's events after the day is over and look for this precise behavior. There are a few different ways in which it could manifest itself. But naturally I'm not going to say it now.

Again, why are you so certain of this? What in past history has led you to believe that this is the way the EW will operate? There's no logic or proof behind this theory, it blatantly contradicts what you said earlier about the wolves being impossible to spot, and it can be dangerous if everyone assumes it's true if it's not. We could be led on a wild goose chase trying to figure out a supposed short list of lynchees that doesn't really exist.

Oh, come now Roa. I haven't been unhelpful. All I've done is accurately described the situation we are in, and mixed in a bit of deliberate pessimism. Heh heh- I think you've actually seen me do that before. You didn't like it much then either, did you?

And I'm quite certain you were evil then as well.

But I don't wish to start the lynch mob in your direction either. You're probably not a WW now, but doubtless you will be one later on. I can't imagine the EW could resist recruiting a former EW to his side.

Again, the classic wolf line of "You suspect, but I think you're just a misguided innocent" with some flattery thrown in for good measure.

Post #142- vote count

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to catch one today. Today is one of the only chances we have of actually keeping the WWs from making an extra kill. Once they have four it will be extremely difficult to get them back down to three, so if we can keep them from getting to four tonight that would really help.

But as I pointed out before, our chances of hitting a WW while looking for the EW are probably just as good as hitting a WW while looking for a WW (at least on Day 1), and thus I do not want to lynch anyone today that people agree is not likely to have applied to be the EW.

Here he admits that catch a wolf on Day 1 is best for the village, but he would still rather only lynch possible EW's, since there's likely a wolf among them. The problem with this is that he keeps saying that bold and brilliant players are unlikely picks for wolves, and yet those are the people that apply for being the wizards. (I know, I saw the list from the last game. Phantom was one of the applicants, if I recall correctly.)

Glad to hear it. Really, the things I've been saying all along have a huge amount of truth in them. Perhaps it is uncomfortable to hear, but you cannot pretend that I am showing the situation for anything other than exactly what it is, even if I am doing it in a fatalistic manner. It ought to at least help everyone make sure their priorities are in order.

The bolded portion made me laugh out loud. Really, almost nothing you've said is correct. Try a very small kernel of truth with a whole lot of misdirection piled on top.

Then there's another vote count followed by:

[quote]Out of those that have votes thus far, I certainly do not wish to lynch myself.

morm.... nah. Not now.

Roa, Izzy, and Cailin- definitely not now.

So that leaves Sally and Brin.

Out of those that have votes thus far, I certainly do not wish to lynch myself.

morm.... nah. Not now.

Roa, Izzy, and Cailin- definitely not now.

So that leaves Sally and Brin.

Unfortunately I haven't played much with either one and I haven't had time to go back and reread this thread to look for things, so I really can't say if I suspect them or not. Certainly I'd prefer them to the others at this time.

Here, he rules people out without any explanation, suggest two possible votees for himself, all of which is drawn from the current vote count. He also doesn't truly suspect either of the two people he's thinking of voting for. Then he suggests voting for the no shows (Di and Nilp). Multiple people formed solid suspicion yesterDay, yet he seems unable to do so.

His next post states that there are 17 votes left, and so anyone could get lynched, yet he still continues to take his candidates from the vote count, not even trying to find someone suspicious. For all his talk of voting for the EW candidates, he never lists who those might be, and doesn't even bother to express suspicion in anyone's direction. (Possibly because he is a wolf, and as he's stated, he doesn't want to lynch his fellows by accident. Maybe all this talk of a lynch list from the EW is an attempt to get the EW to send one.)

Ha ha ha!

I'm not a WW, Eonwe. Yes, no doubt the EW would like to have me on the team at some point, but not at the start!

The classic "I'm not a werewolf" line followed by downplaying the idea of the EW picking a cavalier wolf. The light attitude he keeps using towards everyone who suspects him seems terribly forced to me, as though he's diliberately trying to not be jumpy.

I'm too likely to be scried by the GW, dreamed of by the Seer, or lynched early for doing something crazy.

Restating all the reasons others have doubted his guilt, which of course are not very good reasons. As Lhuna said, everyone thinking that makes a very good choice indeed.

But once past the opening couple days- that is when you'd want to convert me.

If I was a WW I would show up mid-day and try not to rock the boat too much on Day 1. Wouldn't you?

Since when has phantom ever tried to "not rock the boat," ever?

Post #174- vote count, and again suggesting that he vote for someone who's already been voted, and picks Nerwen, whom he's stated has been in top five list of possible wizards (which he never had the courtesy to post.) Note that Nerwen was the other person besides myself to seriously suspect him, but didn't go after him as much as I did. It occurs to me that he is the one who really started fan the flames towards the innocent Nerwen.

Post #177- tells how many votes are left

Post #184- Considers McCaber's vote for Nerwen odd, but isn't certain (how unexpected :rollseyes

Post #191- He asks Lommy what she thinks of Agan. He never states an opinion himself.

post #197- more vote count. That's four now. Ever hear of the wolf that kept posting a vote count in order to look like he was actually doing but wasn't really? Like when he hasn't actually expressed suspicion, just theories, and avoids stating an actual opinion except to pander?

#216- vote count. That's five!

then he wonders about who hasn't voted besides himself.

#237- vote count. That's six!

And that what he did yesterDay. You have already seen what he's done today, and my responses to him.

Oh yeah, I'm convinced he's a wolf. Not the EW. I think he's angry because he realizes the EW may try to sacrifice him, and that goes against what he thinks is wise. So, I won't be able to get on for the rest of the day except possibly briefly at lunch, and then I won't have enough time to read through everything and be effective. So:

++phantom

I didn't actually mean for this to be an analysis... I guess I just can't help myself.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm sorry, I miscounted. phantom posted eight vote counts, not six. Good night and good luck, and hopefully, I'll be alive to help you on Day 3.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Roa

Aside from the post where he blatantly insists that looking for werewolves is a fruitless activity

You are of course referring to this post. ("Bah! Why bother...")

The point of that post was, to anyone with any amount of understanding, quite clear. I was pointing out that we don't truly have normal WWs in this village because they don't know each other. Therefore normal means of WW hunting cannot be used.

Originally Posted by me

Shhh... don't pursue that subject any further.

You are right of course that the WWs might have been given certain... erm... directions... I don't want to be too specific here... I'd rather not have people start posting their thoughts on the matter (ie giving examples). It might be better just to watch for it, for mentioning a specific maneuver may cause the WWs not to use it, where as if we'd keep mum they might do it and then we can spot it if you see what I mean.

Originally Posted by Roa

Here he actively discourages discussions by the villagers while admitting or even elaborating, if you will, on what the EW may have told the wolves. For example, telling a wolf to intentionally mislead the villagers or act in a cobblerish way. Especially if the EW has faith that this particular wolf would be able to bluff his way out of getting lycnhed.

Of course I'm discouraging discussions about the subject! Because if you say "Let's be on the lookout for this specific WW behavior" the WWs obviously AREN'T GOING TO DO IT THEN!

Duh!

It's not always the right time to open your mouth and discuss something. And you ought to know that.

Originally Posted by me

First, the EW didn't actually pick his three WWs- he submitted a list of names, and three people off the list were randomly assigned to be WWs.

In addition, the "who" doesn't matter nearly so much as the "how many". If I was the EW I'd take six mediocre WWs over two brilliant ones any day. In other words the EW will simply pick people that he thinks are not likely to be scried or lynched. If he picks well then the game is his.

Sure, on one hand if he scries me then I can make all kinds of devilish suggestions etc, but if I'm a likely lynch/scry target then it isn't worth it.

Originally Posted by Roa

In this post, phantom tries to make it seem as though the EW's werewolf choice was random, when it isn't.

No I didn't! You are completely and totally twisting that quote. I specifically said "three people off the list were randomly assigned". So no, I never implied that the choice was random. I said that there was a list. My point was simply that the EW did not get to specifically pick his three WWs.

Next, he states that the EW would probably pick safe wolves rather than brilliant ones

Well, that's kind of obvious isn't it?

"Hee hee, I'm the EW, and I'm going to pick WWs that are going to get lynched! Aren't I smart?"

Come on, Roa. There is absolutely nothing at all fishy about believing that the EW would want WWs likely to survive. You are reeeeeeaally grasping here.

Originally Posted by me

Oh, and as far as deciding who we should try and lynch, the EW or WWs, does it really matter much who we gun for?

In my opinion we're just as likely to lynch a WW gunning for the EW as we are if we were actually trying to lynch a WW. It's not like we have any concrete knowledge to work with. On Day 1 in particular we're just taking a blind shot in the dark. Heck, if we'd purposefully try and lynch the Seer we'd probably have just as good a chance of lynching a WW.

Originally Posted by Roa

A sudden shift after coming back to find that his previous statement had garnered more suspicion (and a vote).

How is it a shift? I'm still holding to my guns that the EW is more important than anything else. I'm just trying to get the ones who are overly concerned about WWs on board with me, trying to get them to realize that even trying to gun for the EW they stand just as good a chance of hitting a WW since no one has any clue who one is anyway on Day 1.

Once again you are grasping.

Originally Posted by Roa

Then he posts some statistics that make seem as though it's better for an innocent to get lynched on Day 1 because it raises our chances of finding a wolf on Day 2.

Okay. Now you are just plain off your rocker.

Here is the post that she is referring to, everyone. Read it. Please, I'm begging you, someone tell me where, at any point, it says anything about it being a good idea to lynch an innocent. All that it is is statistics for the first two days. Nothing more.

And duh, of course if you lynch an innocent you are going to have a higher chance of hitting a WW the next day. Everyone knows that, and I don't think anyone in this entire village is silly enough to think that that fact somehow makes it better to lynch an innocent. Your point makes absolutely no sense.

Originally Posted by me

Really? Hmm... don't you actually know Agan? If so then I'd be inclined to trust your opinion of her. Unless of course you are the EW and Agan is one of your WWs and you are throwing the wolf to the lambs to make yourself look good.

Originally Posted by Roa

But when the same idea is suggested against his favor, he says this:

My comment to Lommy was just so I could say "throwing the wolf to the lambs". If you would've quoted the whole post you would've seen that I draw attention to it on the very next line.

Originally Posted by me

Unless of course you are the EW and Agan is one of your WWs and you are throwing the wolf to the lambs to make yourself look good.

Ha ha... throwing the wolf to the lambs...

Moving on...

Originally Posted by me

But what does Agan think of Lommy?

And what do Rikae and Mac think about each other?

Originally Posted by Roa

He avoids expressing opinions, but encourages others to look closely at each other

Oh, please... you are really being thick now. I suppose you can't think of any possible reason why I'd ask Lommy and Agan about each other, or Mac and Rikae about each other.

Oh yeah, that's right- they know each other in real life!

Originally Posted by me

Suppose that one of our extremely busy members is actually not that busy and has been lying through their teeth on the admin thread this whole time. If that is the case then essentially this game is already over, because we simply will not find them out because of the fact that we have to rule someone out!

Originally Posted by Roa

After all he's said in favor of finding the EW, here he insinuates that finding the EW is fairly hopeless as well.

You are way out of bounds now- taking quotes completely and totally out of context.

The full post can be found here.

As can be clearly seen, I am discussing how to go about finding the EW. I make a point that we must begin somewhere, and that stated RL constraints is the logical starting point. But I add that if the EW has been out and out lying about availability on the Admin thread (which I personally think is unsporting) that they have basically won the game already (through dubious means in my opinion).

How is that saying that finding the EW is hopeless? I'm trying to put forth strategies to look for him!

So what you are saying is a complete and utter lie.

Originally Posted by Roa

So, we can't find wolves, and we can't find the EW, according to phantom.

Another lie.

In post # 37 (which you even quoted) I quite plainly say that there might be ways of spotting WWs. And later I say this- "I'm trying to encourage lots of reactions/talking/etc that I can look at and digest after the day is over and then start hunting Wolves." So I obviously think we can find WWs. And I stated that I had a list of top Wizard candidates, so obviously I think we can find the EW.

Which means you are lying about me.

And then you said this about my EW safe-list idea-

Originally Posted by Roa

Again, why are you so certain of this? What in past history has led you to believe that this is the way the EW will operate?

I believe it because it would be a logical thing to do! Give the WWs a couple of safe candidates to ensure that your odds are high of surviving the first day! It makes sense! You may think I'm a little too sure of it, but sorry, that's the way I am. If something looks like a great idea I just assume people will do it. So sue me.

Originally Posted by Roa

it blatantly contradicts what you said earlier about the wolves being impossible to spot

Once again, a lie. I never said WWs were "impossible to spot".

Originally Posted by Me

But I don't wish to start the lynch mob in your direction either. You're probably not a WW now, but doubtless you will be one later on. I can't imagine the EW could resist recruiting a former EW to his side.

Originally Posted by Roa

Again, the classic wolf line of "You suspect, but I think you're just a misguided innocent" with some flattery thrown in for good measure.

This is not evidence. You are taking a statement that could be said by an innocent or a WW and trying to make it prove something.

Originally Posted by me

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to catch one today. Today is one of the only chances we have of actually keeping the WWs from making an extra kill. Once they have four it will be extremely difficult to get them back down to three, so if we can keep them from getting to four tonight that would really help.

But as I pointed out before, our chances of hitting a WW while looking for the EW are probably just as good as hitting a WW while looking for a WW (at least on Day 1), and thus I do not want to lynch anyone today that people agree is not likely to have applied to be the EW.

Originally Posted by Roa

Here he admits that catch a wolf on Day 1 is best for the village, but he would still rather only lynch possible EW's, since there's likely a wolf among them. The problem with this is that he keeps saying that bold and brilliant players are unlikely picks for wolves, and yet those are the people that apply for being the wizards.

What do you mean, "admits" that it would be best to catch a WW? I never said otherwise. Of course it's best to catch a WW.

Only the "bold and brilliant" apply to be the Wizard? What about quiet and brilliant, or sneaky and brilliant, or wise and careful, or bold and crazy... I don't recall that Nog ever had personality requirements. There is potential overlap between Wizard candidates and WW candidates.

Originally Posted by me

Glad to hear it. Really, the things I've been saying all along have a huge amount of truth in them. Perhaps it is uncomfortable to hear, but you cannot pretend that I am showing the situation for anything other than exactly what it is, even if I am doing it in a fatalistic manner. It ought to at least help everyone make sure their priorities are in order.

Originally Posted by Roa

The bolded portion made me laugh out loud. Really, almost nothing you've said is correct. Try a very small kernel of truth with a whole lot of misdirection piled on top.

Whatever. You are the one who has been caught out and out lying. My statistics were accurate. My statements about the rules were accurate. My statements about likely outcomes were accurate. You can say they weren't correct till you're blue in the face, but that doesn't make it so.

Originally Posted by Roa

suggest two possible votees for himself, all of which is drawn from the current vote count

Originally Posted by Roa

yet he still continues to take his candidates from the vote count

Okay, you are being deliberately dense now.

Of course I was only considering candidates who already had votes. I was IN THE LEAD!!

Originally Posted by Roa

For all his talk of voting for the EW candidates, he never lists who those might be

Originally Posted by Roa

and picks Nerwen, whom he's stated has been in top five list of possible wizards (which he never had the courtesy to post.)

Um, I almost don't want to respond to this because it's so silly.

Can anyone think of a reason not to post a list of Wizard candidates?

Oh, that's right, because the GW would be on it too!!

And if you have any faith at all in your list, you'd realize that by posting it you might just be helping the EW to find the GW that much quicker!

Yeesh... I'm surprised you haven't asked me to post a list of who I think the Ranger is.

Originally Posted by Roa

and doesn't even bother to express suspicion in anyone's direction

Oh, yes, because yesterday we had so much to go off of for determining guilt and such. *rolls eyes yet again*

Today we do have something to go off of, and if you look back I come out with suspicions don't I, so all this business about me not stating suspicions holds zero water.

Originally Posted by Roa

The classic "I'm not a werewolf" line followed by downplaying the idea of the EW picking a cavalier wolf. The light attitude he keeps using towards everyone who suspects him seems terribly forced to me, as though he's diliberately trying to not be jumpy.

You just think that because you're trying to paint me as a WW. If someone thinks I'm innocent then my reactions look just fine.

Originally Posted by me

But once past the opening couple days- that is when you'd want to convert me.

If I was a WW I would show up mid-day and try not to rock the boat too much on Day 1. Wouldn't you?

Originally Posted by Roa

Since when has phantom ever tried to "not rock the boat," ever?

I think we can agree that there are different degrees of "rocking the boat", and different ways in which it can be done for Wolvish purposes.

And as far as me constantly posting a vote count- it was kind of important to me seeing as I was on the chopping block.

In addition someone actually thanked me for it and so I just continued doing it.

What, you are suspecting me for doing something helpful?

Anyway, to sum everything up, this was one of the worst put together attacks on me I've ever seen, full of gaping holes, misquotes, and completely false conclusions that directly contradict text that is there for everyone to see.

If you are innocent Roa, please put aside your pride and reread this post with an open mind and see the logic within it.

Though it's getting tougher and tougher to believe that you are innocent after that. It was just so incredibly wrong. More wrong than I think an innocent Roa is capable of being.

[Isabellkya]

I am just popping in to say that I'm here.. for a few more minutes as I skim what has occured since Night. It is almost 2am here.. and attempting to digest the information and come up with coherent thoughts.. is a bit out of the question.

Though I do have a few comments.. the almost complete page of utter silliness - is borderline suspicious.

I don't believe anything happened Night 1 - save for the GW and EW picking their first minions/members.

Speculating on whom Volo could've dreamt last night - well we won't ever know the results of that dream in the duration of this game. Unless of course the GW is the one whom gets the results. So it might be informative on whom he may or may not of dreamt - but ultimately how much will that help us?

We are going into toNight with four wolves, even if we manage to bag ourselves one in the Execution.. another one will most likely just popup in it's place. Again leaving us with two kills during the Night.

The number of vote counts/tallies.. nothing changes from one to the next for all of the ones done toDay.

[the phantom]

Sorry that took up so much space, Legate. The whole thing is probably a bore to read and is simply a distraction and doesn't help us find WWs or the EW one little bit. But I just couldn't allow Roa to get away with posting an attack that contained a dozen or more blatant misinterpretations and flimsy accusations. I've literally never seen anything like it, and I hope I never do again.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Well, I suspected Aganzir yesterDay before Volo was a known innocent and I still suspect her toDay. I see nothing wrong with using a known innocent's quote to support my feelings about another player. Of course, Volo could easily be wrong with her, but as I do suspect Aganzir I think he may be onto something...


Mommy dearest, as determined as you are to lynch tp, do you have thoughts on others as well? I'm just curious...

Explanation... but is it genuine? I said before, sis, I am starting to wonder about your intentions. Don't you know anything about our father's, sister's and grandfather's deaths?

Although what you say to Mom has its value. Mom, don't get too fixed on one person...

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Eonwe's first post: Okay, that was really weird. Misplaced. This isn't an RPG, not even an RPG-style game. Why anyone would spend time and effort crafting such a post instead of arguing with someone or repeating obvious points or indulging in far-fetched speculation is beyond me. It almost makes me suspicious of myself for finding it suspicious.

He's either a bored innocent, a clueless innocent, or a wolf wanting to make his presence known but not wanting to give us something to chew on about himself. I don't think the EW would ask him to do that, though - that would be silly.

This is normal. I remember people who used to do that, simply because they came late, saw a thread full of posts, posted a poem and only then did something else. Although, I don't deny that other things about Eönwë, like his voting, which has been questioned before, are odd (in contrary to this).

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Goodness...I never noticed that quote before. Thanks for pointing it out, Roa. Flip-flopping always causes me to raise an eyebrow, especially after there's been increasing pressure placed on the flip-flopper.

Again! It seems so nice-ish that it really makes me wonder (...tum, tum, tum... and it makes me wonder... Ooooh yeah yeah...)

Sorry mum, I think I'm gonna make our family even thinner toDay.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Post coming in a few minutes. I'll answer every single question raised.

Nooo! Not again... I thought he's sleeping already... someone hit him overhead... one doesn't have to wonder then that there is one page more...

Hooray! It's my post already! Fantastic! (now will refresh... "loading, please wait")

Originally Posted by the phantom

Sorry that took up so much space, Legate. The whole thing is probably a bore to read and is simply a distraction and doesn't help us find WWs or the EW one little bit. But I just couldn't allow Roa to get away with posting an attack that contained a dozen or more blatant misinterpretations and flimsy accusations. I've literally never seen anything like it, and I hope I never do again.

It's okay. And good, it was only my post there (sorry for its length, but I tried my best, and then, it's just one post... so you have it all together in one place, with this one).

I'm going to re-read the Roa-phantom arguments since the bottom of page 8 separately, really not in the mood for that, and it's internal between the two of them.

Yippiee! Caught up.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by phantom

I was pointing out that we don't truly have normal WWs in this village because they don't know each other. Therefore normal means of WW hunting cannot be used.

I disagree. Just because the wolves don't know each other doesn't mean we can find them by normal means. You can't exactly base a suspicion off one player compared to their connections to another player until you have at least one known wolf in a typical game. So how do we catch the first wolf typically? We lynch based on what we deem as suspicious behaviour. And that's how we should play now.

Originally Posted by phantom

How is it a shift? I'm still holding to my guns that the EW is more important than anything else. I'm just trying to get the ones who are overly concerned about WWs on board with me, trying to get them to realize that even trying to gun for the EW they stand just as good a chance of hitting a WW since no one has any clue who one is anyway on Day 1.

Okay, I accept that explanation.

Originally Posted by phantom

Oh, please... you are really being thick now. I suppose you can't think of any possible reason why I'd ask Lommy and Agan about each other, or Mac and Rikae about each other.

Oh yeah, that's right- they know each other in real life!

But I don't think they're opinions of one another should matter anymore than anyone else's. Just because they know each other in RL doesn't always mean they'll have better judgements.

Originally Posted by Legate

If it's not you, sis...

Or you!

Originally Posted by Legate

People, it's nice to read, but post at least shorter posts, like the ones before 299... that was so nice and smooth and fast to read!

Funny you say that 'lil bro as your post is rather lengthy itself...

Originally Posted by Legate

Thank Eru! ; ) : D

NOOOO! THERE IS ANOTHER PAGE ALREADY!!!

AND A LONG ONE, TOO!!! NOOO!!! (It must have been there already when I refreshed! AAARGH!!!)

I AM GOING TO POST. NOW. I HAVE ENOUGH OF YOU.

*chuckles* You must be just as slow of a poster as me.

Originally Posted by Legate

Again! It seems so nice-ish that it really makes me wonder

So, suddenly being nice equals wolf?

[the phantom]

Decided I'd check the thread one last time before hitting the pillow, and what do I find?

Roa- you are nuts.

Either you're a WW who has been given directions to get me lynched, or you simply are trying to prove something to yourself by taking me on.

Your post is ridiculous. It's full of misinterpretations, terrible assumptions, and out and out lies.

I'm going to tear your post up like a piece of paper. Everyone pay close attention. If you follow her lead after I'm done going over her post, then you are purposefully being wrong or are really easy to manipulate.

Post coming in a few minutes. I'll answer every single question raised.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by tp

Post coming in a few minutes. I'll answer every single question raised.

Oh good, I look forward to seeing it.

I'll be honest- I enjoy observing this whole phantom vs. Roa that's been going on (it's like a duel, but not really). And by the end of the Day once my head's done exploding, perhaps I'll be able to get some real insight. Now wouldn't it be funny if both of them were wizards...