Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

BRINNIEL YESTERDAY (sounds like a newspaper title):

#18
Some starting banter, quite usual. Only, I want to point out - already here starts some pattern which follows Brinn all the game. Things like "ooh my head hurts of all those possibilities what can happen overnight". "Ooh thanks Roa for pointing it out". "Ooh I am so nice and confused". The question is - and I can't answer it now - whether it's innocentish behavior for her or not.

#49
Says quite plainly "so we know there AREN'T connections between the wolves", however finishing the sentence with more vague "as they probably don't know of each other". Then she says we should look for connection between EW and the Wolves (how, may I ask?).

Otherwise, makes sense... this is just to question.

#170
Some problem with Nerwen who kind of accused her... mentions some people, more or less saying thigs I believe logical... mentioning both Volo (that his slip "we wolves" has no value) and Kitanna (saying to think her innocentish). This itself, particularly in this game, does not mean anything...

Only, kind of odd is her excusing of morm's vote for herself, or how it should be said. "He voted me, but I can understand him..." Hmph.

Already mentions Aganzir as one she does not like the most; in the end she will indeed vote for her.

#176
Worries about spreading the voting. Ha, ha, ha...

#195
Continues going through her opinions on different people. Seems undecisive still, somewhat.

#211
Mentions Aganzir as possibility for an EW, but (rightfully, I think) says this is no time to discuss on Wizards (it was short before DL); mentions bandwagons as dangerous, is particularly worried about Nerwen bandwagon appearing out of the blue.

#222
Votes Aganzir.

#232
Wonders about my "to vote or not to vote"... Understandable.

#235
Replies to Dury who asked her why all of sudden vote Aganzir, by saying she wanted to vote her before, which is true.

BRINNIEL TODAY (this sounds like a newspaper name):

#245
Voting list...

Doesn't like bandwagons... thinks Volo and Kitanna were killed for not being suspicious...

#275
This is where it actually starts to seem a little weird.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I already mentioned my thoughts on Cailin and I do think she's a bit suspicious. And it doesn't help now that Nerwen's been proven innocent.

It doesn't help, but it should not make it worse as well - it you said yesterday that the wolves don't know each other, so they should have as much chance to lynch an innocent as the ordos do, not?

#300
That thing with Volo I mentioned above... Though after I read through all, it does not look THAT bad... I don't know. It may be that Brinn just found a nice formulation on which grounds to suspect Aganzir, what more, to base it on the thoughts of a known Seer... but... then, would a Wolf act like that? Shielding herself with a Seer? Seeriously? Isn't it kinda too... obvious? Hm. Rationally, I am inclined to think this less sinister than I thought at first. Though on the basis of the feelings, there's still something in the post which does not sit well with me.

Besides that, in her posts she mentions votes she does think suspicious or odd, nothing that much strange on that.

#324
Replies to Durelin... who apparently keeps questioning her (this is for the second time! Cf. above the thing about Brinn's vote). This question is concerning her quote about Volo, more or less the thing I said about that. Brinn replies in the way I would expect, and that is normal. Then talks to Roa not to focus solely on phantom...

#326
Thoughts on Roa-phantom debate. Again, the "thanks Roa..." thing I mentioned before. Saying what she doesn't like about tp. And then, asking if the EW could not instruct the Wolves not to vote, which she immediately discards.

#328
Mentions watching the phantom-Roa thing.

All in all, Brinn:

1) Seems indecisive yesterDay, but more confident toDay.
2) Does not look as bad as I thought. The things are just minor and the only ones.
3) Otherwise, she looks reasonable and I can relate to, or at least understand lot of what she has to say.
4) I am letting her down on my suspicious list.

EDIT: x-ed since my last post

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Funny you say that 'lil bro as your post is rather lengthy itself...

Hey, I already apologized for that, but, like I said, it's one post which sums up all the lengthy posts before me

Originally Posted by Brinn

So, suddenly being nice equals wolf?

No, but trying to appear too nice could. Which is what I meant by it.

But when I already have you here, I see you again mentioned the thing that the wolves probably don't know each other in your last post - I would like you to answer then my question I outlined while going through your posts: concerning the only one of your posts I quoted, #275. So what did you think back then? If the wolves don't know each other, is there any difference if the one who voted Nerwen was a Wolf or not?

LG... seems to go with the usual patterns of things, sort of "going with the crowd". In fact all she says has been here before... which of course in a village like this is not to wonder... but I would like to see more of her (words which bear great danger, especially in this situation!).

[Brinniel]

phantom, what are you doing still up? ...Or rather...were (you're last post was sometime ago, so I'm sure you're in bed now). But still you last posted after 3am (and that's my time). Wait a minute...what am I doing still up? It's almost 5am. Curse you WW!!

Originally Posted by Legate

Says quite plainly "so we know there AREN'T connections between the wolves", however finishing the sentence with more vague "as they probably don't know of each other". Then she says we should look for connection between EW and the Wolves (how, may I ask?).

I think I already answered this in that same post, but anyway... We look for a connection between wolves and the EW by lynching a wolf, then analysing reasons why an EW would scry that player and who that possibly could be. That's the best way I can think of doing it...other than by suspicious behaviour.

Originally Posted by Legate

It doesn't help, but it should not make it worse as well - it you said yesterday that the wolves don't know each other, so they should have as much chance to lynch an innocent as the ordos do, not?

You're right...I wasn't thinking about that when I wrote it. My bad.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I know I'm probably contradicting myself now, but his vote is one of those easy, suspicious things a wolf would love to accuse of *coughBrinncough*

Huh, why me? And you are talking about Legate, right?

It's obviously very late so I should get to bed...

Some last quick thoughts:

I still find Aganzir suspicious..

YesterDay I thought Cailin was suspicious, but I honestly haven't looked too much at toDay's posts.

I'm still baffled by the Roa/phantom row...

People I want to take a closer look at tomorrow: Mac, Legate, Durelin, Cailin. Of course that can change seeing as their will be most certainly a large flood of posts by the time I return.

I would like to see the people who vote randomly or bandwagoned with little or no explanation explain themselves...

I think that's all for now. I'll try to get up a little earlier tomorrow, but no guarantee...I just can't wake up to my alarm anymore.

[Macalaure]

3 new pages already?? There's not way I can read all that with due diligence.

The death of Volo is tragic, but at least he can be replaced and his dreams aren't lost. Why the evil team picked Kitanna is beyond me. I was thinking she'd be a good candidate to be added to the evil team last Night.

The Nerwen bandwaggon yesterDay was ridiculous and deserves some special attention - later, along with thoughts on Volo.

Originally Posted by Roa

Also, on the point of the deaths of Volo and Kitanna- it is more likely that they were killed because the EW believed them likely scries by the GW, and she picked correctly for one of them.

Maybe. However, killing gifteds has only limited effect in this stage of the game. Unless the evil team is incredibly lucky and gets at least two with their three opportunities, a suspected gifted is merely replaced by one they don't know about. The only benefit is that it's uncomfortable to the GW to perpetually change his team, and that the baddies might find clues about other gifteds from the dead one's posts. If I was evil, I would keep suspected gifteds around, because they're easier to kill off after the duel, when they cannot be replaced anymore, than unsuspected ones.

Originally Posted by Durelin

I am almost positive Eonwe has played before.

Eonwe has, Eönwë hasn't.


Now, Lhuna...

Originally Posted by Mac

This suspicion makes me quite suspicious of him. It's too...stretchy.

This suspicion makes me quite suspicious of her. It's too...vague.

Seriously, you say I'm in your red zone etc., but you don't say how what I said led you to put me there. You only give a quote and label it suspicious without any further explanation. Be plainer, please. The only thing I did yesterday that I'm aware of that it could see as suspicious was that I overdid the questioning of Legate. Other than that, your thought process stumps me.

I also don't like your comment on Eönwë. It's everybody's right to dislike RPGy posts, but to suspect somebody for a joking first post goes too far, especially since we're talking about his first game here.

Originally Posted by Legate

People, it's nice to read, but post at least shorter posts

I'm sorry, but this has to be the quote of the Day.

I would like to add that I skipped the entire argument between Roa and tp, considering it utterly pointless.

[Lhunardawen]

I'm such a weak-willed wimp. So much for goodbye.

Okay, so why do I find Mac suspicious?

First of all, and this really gets to me, you said you wouldn't be suspicious of anyone who agreed with Roa, with whom you disagreed. And when I re-read yesterDay's posts you did quite the opposite. Really, that's quite unfair, suspecting people just because you disagree with them.

That quoted post involving Leggie stands out because it gives me the strong feeling of you trying to get into someone's good side (by thanking him for agreeing with you and offering apologies for disagreeing with him).

And three, which will be the most nonsensical of all to you, I think you're a wonderful wolf choice. If it flatters you any, which might be a bit of consolation. That might be random, but I kind of trust to thinking like the EW to help me decide who I think are wolvish, even if I wouldn't go so far as to post a list.

I know that with more than a score of people in this game I could pick just anyone for my vote (and I had a suspicion list), but you were the one who stood out most to me for some reason. It's partly gut feel. Can never do without it.

Anyway, I promised I will be getting off the computer, and so I will. Sadly, this is the last you will hear from me toDay. Stupid timezones (I miss saying that).

[Lhunardawen]

Oh, one last thing.

I didn't know when I first mentioned Eönwë that this is his first game.

(Random note: Wow, Eonwe was my husband in the previous DWW game! )

That said, I didn't completely suspect him: I considered the possibility of him being a bored or lost ordo. I started to actually suspect him for his reasoning behind voting for the phantom. (But now I think I'll give him a bit of slack, because he chose an intimidating game to test the Werewolf waters. But then again, that would make him a good wolf choice. Goodness, this game is making me crazy.)

Truly, ta-ta for now.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

First of all, and this really gets to me, you said you wouldn't be suspicious of anyone who agreed with Roa, with whom you disagreed. And when I re-read yesterDay's posts you did quite the opposite. Really, that's quite unfair, suspecting people just because you disagree with them.

Point taken. :|

And three, which will be the most nonsensical of all to you, I think you're a wonderful wolf choice. If it flatters you any, which might be a bit of consolation. That might be random, but I kind of trust to thinking like the EW to help me decide who I think are wolvish, even if I wouldn't go so far as to post a list.

I know that with more than a score of people in this game I could pick just anyone for my vote (and I had a suspicion list), but you were the one who stood out most to me for some reason. It's partly gut feel. Can never do without it.

Well, I can't argue against that. You would've made me less suspicious if you had said it was mostly gut feel right away. One thing you have to keep in mind, though, is that most people that would make "good wolves" also make good gifteds. Sure, lynching gifteds is a lot less of a problem in this game, but I'd still like to try to avoid it. It's tempting to concentrate on only "good wolves", but it will make us lose in the end, because Evil will simply triumph with "bad wolves" then.

[Rikae]

I'm a wolf, lynch me, kthxbye.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Brinn - A "submarine" is somebody who is easy to overlook, altough in morm's case, I meant more somebody who is hard to figure out, even late in the game. It's a term someone (Noggie, I think) coined in a previous game, and I liked it.

I don't have much to say at this point, but I dislike this feud between my son and sister. If there isn't evil behind it somewhere, it could hardly help the baddies more if there were - two of our strongest players are focusing solely on each other, and both of them are behaving unreasonably, as far as I can see.

A couple of other thoughts - Mac always suspects those who disagree with him (shamefully), so I don't find that suspicious in itself. One think I do find suspicious is attempts to build up cases with little behind them, though - and it's even more suspicious now, when the wolves may be trying to lynch those the EW told them to target. I've noticed a few people doing this -posts where I could just hear the EW in the background saying "go after so-and-so today." I'll come back to it later.

Legate feels off, and I get the feeling he is trying to appear that way, somehow. I don't think he would do that innocently.

That's it for now.

[Lhunardawen]

Okay, now my head aches. And you just lynched our healer yesterDay. Thanks a lot, guys. She hasn't even taught me how to heal headaches yet.

Maybe getting off the computer will help. But before I leave:

++MACALAURE

About the phantom-Roa row, heaven forbid we're looking at an EW and a wolf going at each other as planned! Because Roa, I deeply appreciate all your input as the former EW, but I wouldn't put it past you to be offering your thoughts to us and doing completely different things. You can pull that off. And you did do some serious misinterpretation of some of the phantom's posts.

But right now I'm quite convinced that you're both innocent, just both unfortunately having strong personalities. Now it's about time the village turns its eyes elsewhere.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hm hm hmm... All right folks, like I said, I am going now... and will be back some three hours before DL. I hope not longer! In any case, see you before the DL.

Good luck to the good side... and whoever is on that side at the moment. Stay sharp!