Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[Rikae]

Wow, as if the game weren't complicated enough, we've got two people posting under the names of others. Good thing I'm not still using Mac's computer (amusing as that might be).
I'll go back to my previous post and change the quote attribution accordingly (before Cailin threatens to vote for me).

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Out-of-body experiences are plain weird.

Enedwaith, Rikae is just acting so differently from before. Reminds me of a certain Valier in another Wizard-infested village . . .

[Lhunardawen]

Eek, sorry for the confusion Rikae. Shtoopid Nilp forgot I was still logged on.

I haven't done more than a cursory read-through of toDay and yesterDay. But I see some people have also considered the possibility of Lommy being the EW and going after Agan. I don't know exactly how, but as I re-read their posts yesterDay (especially the ones with all caps and exclamation points - those were hilarious) the idea seemed to be likelier to me. Agan's last words certainly fit the notion, at least as I understand it.

The confusing thing for me is, I'm also getting the stronger feeling that the phantom might be the EW. Don't know how I got there. There's something fishy about him telling me that if he was the EW he would kill me if I kept on insisting that he was. I don't get it.

Anyway, Leggie is still suspicious. I can vaguely remember that he made some inconsistencies yesterDay. I'll try to dig them up.

[Lhunardawen]

the phantom: What's with the Lommy-Agan thing? Surely there's something to it?
Leggie: Not necessarily.

Just that? No elaboration? Trying to cover up your master and fellow slave?

Sorry, I can't help commenting on this:

Originally Posted by the phantom

*grin* I love you, Lhuna.

I know. What I don't know is why you won't just marry me already.

(And we could have the first in-game marriage! Wouldn't that be fun?)

EDIT: cross-posted with - of all people - my fiance

[the phantom]

Eomer's been posting, eh? No wonder I picked up on WW vibes. He's EVIL!!

Green's still looking innocent to me. You're wrong about me though.

Originally Posted by Cai/Eomer

Well, that was pretty easy. I know you'll be offended by this, phantom, but I can just dismiss your post. By your standards it's pretty lame.

I'm not offended. I know it's lame. But I just can't shake this feeling, like it or not.

And I see I even forgot another one of my Cai=guilty reasons....

I would've scried her as the EW! Totally, without a doubt. She would've been on my list Night 1 and had I not gotten her I would've been anxious to add her to my den.

Originally Posted by McCaber

Gwath and phantom - very interesting. Now I have to go back and read Cailin's posts again. I think you guys have something there.

Ah, excellent. Hey Gwath- we have a member recruited for our Lynch Cailin Club!

Legate, my good friend and business partner, what do you think? Interested in joining?

Originally Posted by LomLom

STOP TRUSTING MY JUDGEMENT ON AGANZIR!!!!!!!!!!

See, I can kind of understand this coming from an Ordo. I've felt like that before, where I suspect someone and then people depend on me to be right and I begin to doubt myself and get to feeling really guilty about what if the person is actually innocent and I'm getting them lynched etc.

I trust Lommy.

And I'm liking Rikae more than ever. Calling the EW names. That's gutsy.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by The love of my life

The confusing thing for me is, I'm also getting the stronger feeling that the phantom might be the EW. Don't know how I got there. There's something fishy about him telling me that if he was the EW he would kill me if I kept on insisting that he was. I don't get it.

Where is your sense of loyalty? Even if you do suspect that I am the EW, as my fiance you should be supportive of me and my hobbies. That is why I'd kill you- for betraying me.

Two people who are in love should be able to work through problems. They can't let a simple matter of their-spouse-is-a-murdering-embodiment-of-evil break them apart.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Where is your sense of loyalty? Even if you do suspect that I am the EW, as my fiance you should be supportive of me and my hobbies. That is why I'd kill you- for betraying me.

Two people who are in love should be able to work through problems. They can't let a simple matter of their-spouse-is-a-murdering-embodiment-of-evil break them apart.

Well, if you are the EW, why don't you curse me? I know they've all been saying that I hate being evil - and they speak the truth - but I thought that maybe you would want me to be with you...

[the phantom]

Well, if you are the EW, why don't you curse me? I know they've all been saying that I hate being evil - and they speak the truth - but I thought that maybe you would want me to be with you...

But I shouldn't have to curse you to gain your loyalty. Would you really want to be with someone that you had to put a spell on? Love and will domination don't go together. Call me a hopeless romantic, but I want to be loved out of free will.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

But I shouldn't have to curse you to gain your loyalty. Would you really want to be with someone that you had to put a spell on? Love and will domination don't go together. Call me a hopeless romantic, but I want to be loved out of free will.

Really, phantom. As if anyone could resist loving you.

[Lhunardawen]

I really wish I had more time and was certain of it, or at least more people are posting right now, but neither is the case and so I must make my rather uncertain vote.

++satansaloser2005

She's the one I feel most comfortable voting for toDay. I completely agree with her name, though.

Good night, everyone.


EDIT: Darn it, Nilp, you spoiled what could have been my triple-posting action!

[Rikae]

Anybody who trusts me is obviously evil, because I have never seen anyone so obviously evil as me. That means tp and Lhuna are both evil, evil, eeeeevil.

On another note: do we really want to lynch the EW? Wouldn't it serve our purposes better to actually get rid of somebody who's a direct threat to us? Well, I suppose at least by lynching the EW, we don't end up lynching somebody from our own side... but it is a bit of a wasted lynch, methinks.

EDIT: X'd with Nilp and Lhuna.

[Isabellkya]

Okay, I'm here and I have to vote soon.
Unfortunately for today it is decent weather outside, which means I have to attend this family fishing outing - which means I may be back before deadline, but I don't want to risk saying my two cents and a vote in case I'm not. I'd debated with myself about holding it until later, since it is so early, but then I may not have time to skim whatever is new and has happened toDay. *hopefully it starts raining on the way there.*


I wouldn't mind voting for Diamond, I'd seen there was a lot of joking but had not really realized how much of it there was. Which joking is fine, but how far will that help in hunting for wolves? She wouldn't be my top voting choice, but I wouldn't mind it.

I've only skimmed the thing between Lommy and Aganzir, and vaguely remembering the game where it was an all-female wolf pack..Volo's game.. I remember (if correctly) Lommy and Aganzir were both wolves - and Lommy claimed gifted. So I wouldn't put it past either of them to be up to shenanigans together. I think most of us believe that the wolves and EW don't know each other. Could be very true, but I don't think the EW has to let ALL of the wolves know/communicate between themselves. If they'd picked two particularly sneaky schemers, s/he could've informed the two of each other and let them loose on the board.

In which case I would like to take a closer look at Lommy for that very reason, assuming I am remembering correctly.

I would like to take a closer look at Lalaith because I don't really remember much of what I've read about her, but from today it is almost kind of odd. I know you said it toDay atleast, but I can't find the blasted post now. Anyhow, it seems in your list/searching it was based on people whom are/could be wolves based on whether or not the EW thought them potentially the GW. Which strikes me as a very limited avenue of recruiting wolves. I don't know if you actually believe that the EW would be doing such a thing, but weird nonetheless.

Greenie, if I look bad based on activity or possibly lack-there-of; then you my dear sister-in-law must look far worse. :P

Cailin, I wouldn't mind voting for her based on some actions yesterday of shopping her vote around. Though it does bring a new light that Eomer is there in - well haunting spirit sometimes.

I think that is all for now. Will be back shortly with my vote.


X'd with nilp, Lhuna, Rikae, phantom, Lhuna

[Lhunardawen]

I've learned from a wise man named Kuruharan in a village of old that a personality change means you're hiding something. I don't know if this is a good thing or bad when applied to Rikae. But thus far I'm inclined to trust her. I hope the calling-the-EW-names tactic is not a way of hiding out in the open.

Anyway, Kath's reason for - or the lack of sense in - voting Mac worries me:

So, I don't like Mac here. He tried to fight against Lhuna but when she gave him nothing he gave up and went after someone else.

Mac certainly didn't try to fight against me, he simply asked me why I suspected him, because admittedly I didn't really explain it well. He didn't really suspect me, so he had no reason to go after me.

That's the sound of my alarm bell ringing a bit.

I don't know how much time I have, so I have to vote soon.

Right now I'm still unsure about Leggie, but I'm willing to give him one more Day.

Maybe the reason I suspected Cailin was that she felt odd to me yesterDay - but that was because she was a he then, and Eomer always feels furry.

The person I feel most like going after right now is sally. I find her distracting, since Day 1. She posts so much with little substance.

I'm not sure if it's worth voting for Lommy simply because I'm more convinced she's the EW than I am with my dear phantom.

I'll be back.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

++Rikae

I would have done a normal analysis like before, but it'll be like computing the trajectory of a missile when you can perfectly see its nose heading for you.

I sense there's something wrong with her toDAY, as I've said in 593, and the way she ignores my suspicions, and . . . well, just pokes fun at serious theories--with Diamond that would have been normal; with her it feels unnatural. Something has changed in her.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Ah, excellent. Hey Gwath- we have a member recruited for our Lynch Cailin Club!

Whoa there. We aren't friends yet, and I still suspect you as much as anyone else. Yesterday you gung-ho for helping Cailin string me up, but as soon as Cailin starts to look bad, you drop her and start ingratiating yourself with her opponents. Nice. Where's your sense of loyalty?

[Gwathagor]

As much as I don't like Cailin (which is a lot), tp's campaign to get her lynched looks nearly as bad. It's really really scummy. "Legate, my good friend and business partner, what do you think? Interested in joining?" "Come on Izzy. Vote Cailin please. *gives puppy dog eyes*" "Bingo! That's precisely why we should lynch Cailin rather than me." He kind of reminds me of a corrupt politician who will say anything and befriend anybody in order to get votes he needs.

[Roa_Aoife]

Alright, I'm here and alive (mostly). Before I go through toDay's posts, some thoughts from the previous Day:

Phantom, this time you were not in danger, and yet you still chose to hop on someone else's suspicions rather than your own. You even complained after someone else voted for me that they came after your vote. Why so afraid to be the first to vote for me? Why not cast a vote for who you really want to rather than hang around trying to find someone among the people who have already been voted? You're bandwaggoning. You're doing nothing but bandwaggoning. I do believe toDay is the first day that you've actually openly tried to get someone, and I doubt you'll be the first to vote her.

Edit: cross posted with phantom- the GW isn't going to scry if you're at risk of being scried by the EW in the same night, so give it up. Of course, if are a wolf, then you have nothing to fear by being scried by the GW.

[Rikae]

Sorry tp, I know you aren't the EW. Besides, I'm not entirely opposed to lynching the EW, anyway.

Nilp, you're wrong. I am always like this. I don't think you've played with me before, have you? Those who have are so used to me acting strangely, I couldn't get lynched if I wanted to. Allow me to demonstrate:

++Rikae

EDIT: X'd with tp and Roa

[Roa_Aoife]

I find Rikae's post ironic in that it's responding to Nilp, who is famous for self-voting.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I find Rikae's post ironic in that it's responding to Nilp, who is famous for self-voting.

Ironic, but not at all suspicious, eh?
Last time I self-voted, I got lynched for it. Now there's nothing new under the sun.

That's ok. I'm the GW, anyhow - so you really couldn't lynch me.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm back, I'm back, I'm pink, I'm pink, ... I'm in-vi-si-ble! (Right! All of us are! Oh, how fitting. I should praise myself.)

First, one thing about our... sorry: about MY Sally. Because her posts are where I finished last time. I know she is usually chatty a lot, out-of-game-chatty a lot, but it makes me wonder, ooohyeahyeah, it really makes me wonder, tum-dum-tu-tu-tum-tum (okay, I'm stopping that already, what's up with me? :sillyness: ), if she isn't overdoing it a little in this particular game. Although this game is particularly suitable for that, but still, I am starting to wond... ahem, if there isn't the intention of hide behind lots of banter in it. Although it's, like, 25% probable from my point of view that it could be so. So not much. But watchin' it.

All right... what next.

Lalaith! She is actually playing? I said something about submarines yesterDay, but if there are any which are really, really deep, then it is her. Unbelievable. I knew she was a subject to vote and such, but if I try to remember anything about her from this game, I don't recall anything.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I am finding Lommy rather different in this game and it worries me. At one point she said that either Roa or phantom must be evil, then she wastes time pondering the point that wolves wouldn't necessarily want to kill gifteds at night, just wait until after the duel. (Obviously not the case: when her gifteds are killed, the GW has to scry to replace them, rather than scry for EW and wolves, and that is clearly to the evil team's benefit. The shortlist for a gifted scry would be a different one to the shortlist for a search-the-baddie scry.) Anyway, what I'm really saying is that the Lommy I've played with (always, coincidentally, an innocent Lommy) is too smart to be saying stuff like this so it worries me.

I don't think that's necessarily true. What I said before, my opinion is that Lommy is normal Lommy (this is, among other things, which led me to believe after their arguments with Agan yesterDay that one is not innocent, although they both seemed so, and I went with Agan), only maybe toDay she's different a little, or seems so. But the most troubling about Lommy is that she is so... silent, unlike her usual self. She posts less than usual, I think. Or I may just think so. I don't know.

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

But she also casts the vote that gets Aganzir killed, which means that either she is a wolf who decided to risk sacrificing her fellow in order to build her own reputation, an innocent who made some mistakes early on, or a wolf who got scried over somewhere in between Nerwen's death and Aganzir's death.

Or a wolf who did not know that Agan is a wolf because the EW did not tell her. Erm... a slip, Gwathy? Do the wolves know each other and you know because you are one?

Originally Posted by the phantom

And then she holds her vote later on Day 2 and starts shopping around to lynch someone else. Did she know that Agan was a WW? It's possible. But either way, it just doesn't seem like a Cailin move. I'd come out and ask "Hey, you guys wanna lynch so-and-so instead?" but it didn't feel right coming from Cailin.

And then Mac reveals, and she says "I suppose I should trust Mac", but then waits till 6:00 to vote. What was she waiting on? It takes less than 10 seconds to post "+ + Aganzir". You'd think she would've been in an outright panic if she was truly innocent! "Oh great! Mac's the Ranger! It's up to me! The deadline is almost here!"

That's a good point.

Originally Posted by the phantom

2) Lommy, unless turned last night, has got to be innocent.

That's very radically formulated, but it technically sums what I think as well (well, I already said above).

Hmm. TP is acting so... friendly, so to say, rationally (hm, if it's the right word in his case :-P - but let's say, I can identify with a lot he says - and I mean mainly: he is not building up - or seems not to build - baseless cases. He seems to be careful with this), I would think him innocentish. If he is cleverly manipulating us, is another thing, but right now my scales weigh him more to the innocent side.


Brinniel seems to make sense (post 652, for example) and I am letting my doubt off of her more, also after what Aganzir said yesterDay in her parting words (I said before that I am inclined to think she named innocent people. Besides, concerning Brinn and me, she only repeated what she said before about the two of us, so it was not a momentarily made-up thing).

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I'm in agreement that Cailin, in light of Gwath's analysis (thanks by the way, Gwath), looks pretty bad. As does Legate still.

You know what - may I ask you to sum up in short the reasons why you currently suspect me?

Wonderful - I write the above line and just after that Di posts:

Originally Posted by Diamond18

Speaking of that, I did look through all of Shasta's posts. He doesn't feel overtly suspicious to me, though he did seem to cling to only two suspects for a long time (Legate and phantom) before seeing fit to analyze McCaber and Gwath.

Because that's exactly what I've been thinking, so that's why I decided to ask.

Originally Posted by Cailín

I'll let you lynch me if you guess which posts were Eomer's and which were mine.

Wonderful. So we have a schizophrenic villager here. Who is supposed to make a picture out of it, then?

(reading on)
I like Brinniel better and better.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I´ve continued to think about this order of wolves created business.
Here´s what I´ve come up with.
a. The EW wants to create new wolves, but at the same time she is trying to find the GW. So after Night One, when she creates her basic team, her picks are likely to be players she thinks might be the GW.

Really? I think it's not EW's problem to find the GW. It's GW's problem to find the EW. As long as EW can, she keeps multiplying her wolves, so that in the moment when she is at last scried by the EW, she dies, but leaves behind a horde unbeatable. What you say does not make much sense to me.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

That's similar to what I was about to say. I mean, of course Legate has to think everyone mentioned there is probably innocent when he's among them. Aganzir is too clever of a wolf to purposely give off a list of all innocents.

Well, the question is, why not. She may think we will think that she will think... you get the idea. (Or she may not think anything and just post, especially in the case you mention, when she wouldn't know who's a wolf and who not [though she would have her guesses about that, if nothing else]. She may also do so just to leave us some confusion to bother about as a parting present.)

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Just that? No elaboration? Trying to cover up your master and fellow slave?

No elaboration was there, really? I have to look back on it when it was written; but I think it was merely a statement: not necessarily. But I am pretty sure I wrote something more about it. Or at least I was thinking it. Hm...

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

I've only skimmed the thing between Lommy and Aganzir, and vaguely remembering the game where it was an all-female wolf pack..Volo's game.. I remember (if correctly) Lommy and Aganzir were both wolves - and Lommy claimed gifted. So I wouldn't put it past either of them to be up to shenanigans together. I think most of us believe that the wolves and EW don't know each other. Could be very true, but I don't think the EW has to let ALL of the wolves know/communicate between themselves. If they'd picked two particularly sneaky schemers, s/he could've informed the two of each other and let them loose on the board.

What? That they will be sharingans together?
Okay, okay, nothing. Well, it's a good point about the EW letting only some wolves know each other, and I have been thinking about it as a possibility before too (I think I even said it somewhere). However, I am still closer to the idea that if Lommy is not innocent right now, then she was before and was scried into a wolf this Night.

Isabell actually seems to make lot of sense and seems quite genuine. See, Izzy, now that you post more, or longer posts at least, I can get some reading of you (and it's quite positive this far).

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Actually, thinking about what I said just now....the EW can of course also use wolf-kills to discover the GW. Perhaps that was what was going on, on Night Two (Volo could have been a potential wizard) but probably not on Night Three.

Again - I think you are complicating it. As soon as the wizards are revealed, they may challenge each other and at the moment they die. There's no point for the EW to waste her scries on the GW, when she can have unlimited brood of minions.

Originally Posted by the phantom

And as far as my cry for Legate's help- it's partially in character (he's my fellow sheep herder). But it's also because he is one of the ones I trust and I'd like to forge an alliance.

Yes, yes, yes... thank you, fellow business partner well I would need to look at her more closely, there has been something before that bothered me, but I haven't focused on her specifically. Hopefully later I could look at her closer (there's the problem that she's a schizo, which kind of bothers me).

And let me finish with a sigh:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nilp, you're wrong. I am always like this. I don't think you've played with me before, have you? Those who have are so used to me acting strangely, I couldn't get lynched if I wanted to. Allow me to demonstrate:

+ + Rikae

What the heck is THAT.

Now I'm finished, hope to stay on track and will be around somewhat from now on, or should be (between doing something else... some latin is trying to blink at me from the left side).

EDIT: x-ed since Rikae's self vote. what I saw when skimming through it doesn't make me feel good about Raikiri... sorry, Rikae; at all.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Sorry tp, I know you aren't the EW. Besides, I'm not entirely opposed to lynching the EW, anyway.

++Rikae

Oh, the irony.

[the phantom]

You're right, Gwath. I'm doing anything I can to get voters.

1) I really do think Cailin is suspicious.

2) If I'm wrong then the GW might want to look into me.

3) If I'm right the EW and the GW might want to look into me.

So this is sort of a great situation that I'm in. I really truly believe that I'm right about Cailin, but even if I'm wrong it increases my chances of getting a role.

And as far as my cry for Legate's help- it's partially in character (he's my fellow sheep herder). But it's also because he is one of the ones I trust and I'd like to forge an alliance.

As far as buddying up to you, I was just happy to see someone else who seemed to share my suspicions.

What, are you feeling a bit like Lommy yesterday- not comfortable with people following your hunches?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Roa

Phantom, this time you were not in danger, and yet you still chose to hop on someone else's suspicions rather than your own. You even complained after someone else voted for me that they came after your vote. Why so afraid to be the first to vote for me?

I didn't really want to vote for you. I did suspect you a little bit, but never as much as others. I kind of want you to stick around. You're fun, and opinionated.

Does this mean you're feeling a bit better, btw?

Ah, and Rikae votes for herself. You're brilliant, mother!

I couldn't get lynched if I wanted to.

Don't say that. People might... erm... interpret it in a certain way....

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Rikae

That's ok. I'm the GW, anyhow - so you really couldn't lynch me.

Really? I never would've guessed.

Then who would you recommend that we lynch?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by naughty boy

Then who would you recommend that we lynch?

You!