Can I just admit that I'm addicted to LotR fanfiction?

[Lush]

I'm not offended, Nerwen. I think this is an interesting conversation.

If you'll forgive me for saying this– people who have had such experiences may not be better at judging than anyone else, simply because they're so ready to see it everywhere, to believe they have a special insight, and to be willing to ignore the signs that scream, "Fake!" to everyone else.

I don't speak for anyone else, just myself and the people I have worked with, but I rarely meet survivors who are "ready to see it everywhere." I think your conception about what it means to be a survivor of childhood abuse is off. We're not all madwomen stuck in the attic with a DSL connection, usually it's quite the opposite. If your friend is trying to convince you of past abuse that never happened, it's most likely that she has yet to work out her own issues, and is probably trying to connect to you through a shared history that just doesn't exist. This is unfortunate, and you should tell her so (though if she does have actual trauma in her life, it's best to tread lightly - while still being firm, of course). I would caution you against making sweeping statements about "people who have had such experiences" - and what they're good, and not good, at. I am very comfortable discussing my past abuse in public - I think the embarrassed silence that surrounds it is what enables abusers - but I wouldn't be comfortable discussing it with an individual who purports to know exactly how it has affected me and what it makes me able, or unable, to do.

I think copying others is actually a great way to allow your work to serve a purpose, first and foremost, to yourself. Using familiar tropes is comforting. It doesn't make for good writing, but it does allow you some measure of control over a narrative without necessarily overstepping certain internal boundaries.

My thoughts on the matter are not meant to take away from your fun of skewering bad fanfic. It's my type of fun as well. But I think it is true that many people use fanfic to work out their own issues and desires, and the interesting ones do it interestingly (interesting doesn't always mean good, btw).

Your pardon all, but using the phrase "writing as therapy" simply gains one the label Captain Obvious.

I actually never thought of my own writing, or anyone else's, as therapy - for a long time. Writing was always Art, and anyone who wasn't striving to make Art through writing was basically worthless in my eyes. Then I loosened up a bit, and saw that it was many things. When I write ghost stories for my kid brother, is it Art? Probably not. But that doesn't make me want to stop, oddly enough.

[Nerwen]

Lush, I wasn't trying to make sweeping statements about you or anyone. I was speaking only of the subset of people who claim their judgement is more valid than that of the rest of us, due to what they've been through. I was just putting forward reasons why this may not be the case. At no time did I mean this to apply to all victims of abuse.

I have to say, though, people who have a history of trauma are, in my limited experience at least, very apt to do what I described. Perhaps they are not representative– an exception rather than the rule. All I can say is that some people react in this way, and leave it at that.

Anyway, obviously I did offend you, and I'm sorry for that.

I guess I did not make it clear what I was trying to say. I'm not really all that good at expressing myself verbally. (I've been lynched in WW for this!)

Once again, after reading reams of angsty fan-fic, I find it impossible to believe that most "fanbrats" are other than spoiled teenagers working off their natural adolescent hostility to their parents. Like I did.

EDIT: clarifying, adding a comment.

[Lush]

I find it impossible to believe that most "fanbrats" are other than spoiled teenagers working off their natural adolescent hostility to their parents. Like I did.

And that's what can make them really, really fun.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lush

And that's what can make them really, really fun.

That... and the typical Mary Sue's weird name, weirder powers (were-dragons, anyone?), special eye-colour... I mean, they're still hooked on violet! And I love how they totally take the story over (mystical connection to the Ring, etc.)

Some people do get awfully upset by things like fairies and drow in Middle-earth, though...

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The very best way to write a Mary Sue story is to proclaim it a parody so that readers know you're above that kind of shoddy writing. Then you can do absolutely anything you want with both character and story and be considered witty and intelligent, because you're allegedly not taking it seriously nor are the readers. Who's then to accuse the author her/himself of self-insertion or therapeutic writing?! Best of both worlds!

[Nerwen]

You haven't done this yourself, by any chance, Esty?

EDIT: fixed bolding.

EDIT2: update. I just discovered a great Mary Sue– named Nerwen! (Author must have got the name off a list somewhere, as she's clearly never read any of the books, let alone UT.)

She rides a unicorn.

[Thenamir]

... as mentioned by the Lovely Estelyn, can be found right here on the Downs: Revenge of The Entish Bow and its sequel, The Reunification of the Entish Bow -- and I don't say that becase both Esty and I participated in the writing thereof ...