Is it possible: 1 Silmaril found: The Arkenstone

[Lindale]

DIdn't the Dwarves find the Arkenstone in the Lonely Mountain as an uncut gem? Haven't got my Hobbit with me, but I'll bet my life, it's a natural stone...

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

The Arkenstone was not a silmaril, I'm pretty sure because the silmarils as stated earlier were very precious and it was said that they were in their proper places until the world was ending, so the Arkenstone=Silmaril, no. Besides mortals weren't supposed to touch them. Also I don't think that they have very much in common with each other other than they are both beautiful jewels that bring out ones greediness. Also the Arkenstone I believe had many more sides than a Silmaril had and looked a bit different otherwise too. They both had internal lights, but I would definitely think that the SIlmaril's would be more wholesome, if you know what I mean, because the light comes from the two trees themselves... Did the Arkenstone's light have a warm glow like a living object, or was it a kind of white light?

[Stoatly Grimes]

I have read most of the posts relating to this idea of the Arkenstone being a Silmaril. I am surprised at how many of you people seem to entertain this clearly false idea. I feel I need to step in to bring some sense to the table.

I genuinely am shocked at how Tolkien's language is misunderstood in this particular debate. I understand that in the Balrog wings debate / Elf ear-shape debate etc. his ambiguous language serves to fuel debate and provides ammunition for both sides, but on this Arkenstone matter you are fooling yourselves. You are looking for evidence that is not there, and re-wording or re-interpreting Tolkien's language in order to make it fit. Have you heard of Occam's Razor? At a certain point you must step back and realise that the argument in favour of the proposition is extraordinarily cumbersome and full of holes.

Don't get me wrong, full respect to Gwaihir for that interesting article about volcanoes etc. I'm not having a go at him; I fear the talons immensely.

The idea that a Silmaril could be tossed aside (as it is when Thorin dies) is ridiculous and anyone with an understanding of the Silmarillion should realise this. The entire story is based upon the covetous nature the gems instill in beings and the years of terrible deeds that result.

It is possible that another gem existed in Arda. Wow! Think about that. In fact the Hobbit quite clearly explains that this stone was discovered in uncut form and worked by the dwarves.

Not everything in Tolkien has to be tied in and interlinked.

(Though I did read an interesting theory recently - tongue-in-cheek of course - that Bombadil and the Witch-king are the same person)

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Stoatly Grimes

(Though I did read an interesting theory recently - tongue-in-cheek of course - that Bombadil and the Witch-king are the same person)

Bombadil and the WiKi as alter-egos? Let's do pros and cons, shall we?

Pros

1. They are never seen together (hmmm...very suspicious).

2. Although Bombadil's clothing is colorfully garish, it could well be hidden beneath the WiKi's black cloak (the yellow boots present a problem though).

3. Goldberry and Eowyn both had blonde hair (one considered him a lady-killer, the other was his killer-lady).

4. Both had power over evil spirits (in fact, both had an intimate knowledge of the Barrow Downs).

5. Forn and WiKi both have four letters, while WitchKing and Orald each have two syllables! It is almost cabalistic in a numerological sense.

6. Both the WitchKing and Bombadil may have been borrowed in part by Tolkien from ancient texts (Bombadil has affinities to Väinämöinen from the Kalevala, and the WitchKing to the witch-king Þráinn, a draugr from the Icelandic saga Hrómundar saga Gripssonar).

7. Both lived an extraordinarily long time (although no mention is made of either prior to the forging of the Rings).

8. Bombadil was rather animated and joking, while WiKi was wooden and devoid of humor (perhaps overcompensating, huh?).

9. Tom could see Frodo while he was wearing the Ring, as did the WiKi.

10. The WitchKing conducts an all-encompassing war that destroys the Dunedain in Eriador, but miraculously Tom and his forest are untouched!

Cons

1. There is really only one comment to be made here (aside from Gandalf going to have a long talk with Tom after the War of the Ring), that is -- Tom had the Ring in his grasp, played a parlor trick with it, then handed it back to Frodo and assured his safety thereafter.

Ah well, another perfectly good conspiracy theory down the drain.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

That was an interesting read, but I think I would have placed

" 8. Bombadil was rather animated and joking, while WiKi was wooden and devoid of humor (perhaps overcompensating, huh?)."

because if you start taking in the differences between them as a sign of them being the same. . . . well then almost everything would speak for them being the same being.