![]() |
![]() |
Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
|
![]() |
#1 | |
Delver in the Deep
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Aotearoa
Posts: 960
![]() |
![]()
Following on from what Morthoron has said about religion being "relatively latent in Middle-earth", there is only one instance of religious ritual in LOTR - when Faramir and the Rangers of Ithilien turned and faced west in a moment of silence before eating:
Quote:
In the existence of both an omnipotent, single creator as Ilśvatar, as well as that of lesser Valar, each with a realm so to speak of which they were in charge, Tolkien may have been trying to posit through his mythology how monotheism and polytheism could exist in the world. Imagine for a moment that his fiction was actually fact. It could account for why monotheist religions such as Christianity, Judaism or Islam pray to a single, omnipotent creator (as one exists in the form of Ilśvatar) as well as how polytheist forms of belief such as the Greeks and the Norse could have a pantheon of gods, each with their own realm (as Poseidon for the sea or Thor for thunder etc). The only beliefs which would not be encompassed by Tolkien's mythology would be certain eastern philosophies without god(s). In Maori cosmology, there are atua who have different realms as for the Greeks, for example Tane for the forests. Atua is translated somewhat incorrectly as god; Maori do not "pray" to the atua as say a Christian or a Muslim would pray to God or Allah, but there do exist invocations or rituals when these atua are to be addressed or placated, for instance in pre-European times when a large tree was to be felled for the building of a waka (canoe). It seems to me the same relationship exists between the people of Arda and the Valar.
__________________
But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Facing the world's troubles with Christ's hope!
Posts: 1,635
![]() ![]() |
Thanks for the insight and spelling corrections Aganzir and Eonwe!
![]() Thanks for brining that up Legate. So Ilśvatar would be worshipped as the creator, but the Valar would be to whom the people would pray to for certain things? Quote:
__________________
I heard the bells on Christmas Day. Their old, familiar carols play. And wild and sweet the words repeatof peace on earth, good-will to men! ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#3 | ||
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Quote:
Quote:
Again, Tolkien rather masterfully imbedded a Catholic sense of virtue and morality in his story without the overt and unctuous need for formal religion, which would have degraded the plot from a mythological standpoint (tending it more towards direct allegory), and would have alienated many a reader who would prefer not being proselytized to (missionary zeal does not usually play well in works of literature). In fact, the greatest emphasis on formal religion is completely in the negative: the Cult of Morgoth in Numenor. Here we have a centralized temple, sacrifice and frightened masses crowded in like cattle to worship (or else face divine, and, as is ever the case with formal religion, earthly retribution). So, as is ever my circuitous method in reply to a seemingly simple question (but which is far more complex), I would say Numenoreans 'revere' Eru (revere being defined as 'to show devoted deferential honor to : regard as worthy of great honor', rather than 'worship' him (and worship being defined as 'a form of religious practice with its creed and ritual, and extravagant respect or admiration for or devotion to an object of esteem'). I may be splitting hairs here, but it is different to be reverential or respectful of something, than it is to be worshipful or adoring of something.
__________________
And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
||
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the Helcaraxe
Posts: 733
![]() ![]() |
In Letter 153 Tolkien says:
Quote:
Oh, and as yet another former Catholic (so former, I suspect I'd've been excommunicated as a heretic and apostate if I'd stayed in the church ![]() ![]() All just my nickel's worth (inflation, y'know ![]()
__________________
Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :) Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. John Stewart Mill |
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
|
|
![]() |