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Originally Posted by Morthoron

In particular, I'd like to know more about the arcane power he wielded (enchanting Nan Elmoth with shadows and snares, and imbuing blades with malice, for instance). Was this a natural ability of all Teleri (for I would assume Eol would consider himself Teleri and not a Sindar), or were such abilities only partially inherent, in that only a few such Elves of that Eldar generation could summon such power (perhaps only the firstborn -- and it can be assumed Eol was a firstborn)?

I've always assumed that most Elves, or at least the more prominent ones, had certain arcane or 'magical' powers, although this isn't something Tolkien emphasised. Luthien certainly knew a fair bit about 'magic' and Felagund was a master of 'songs of power'. Feanor must also have used some extraordinary powers to create the silmarils, or else, why wouldn't he do it again? Galadriel's Mirror is another example. Even Thranduil's woodland-elves seemed to master some mindblowing tricks. In fact, Elven 'magic' was a thing even Sam had heard of and connected them with, although his sources probably weren't very reliable.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by skip spence

I've always assumed that most Elves, or at least the more prominent ones, had certain arcane or 'magical' powers, although this isn't something Tolkien emphasised. Luthien certainly knew a fair bit about 'magic' and Felagund was a master of 'songs of power'. Feanor must also have used some extraordinary powers to create the silmarils, or else, why wouldn't he do it again? Galadriel's Mirror is another example. Even Thranduil's woodland-elves seemed to master some mindblowing tricks. In fact, Elven 'magic' was a thing even Sam had heard of and connected them with, although his sources probably weren't very reliable.

As half-Maia, I always discount Luthien in comparison to full-blooded Elves when it comes to arcane abilities (It's quite reasonable to believe she got the 'magic' gene from Momma, because Thingol really shows no aptitude for magic -- but he did set foot on Aman, however briefly). You then rattle off Finrod, Feanor and Galadriel, but don't we take it for granted that the Noldo who came from Aman are intrinsically more powerful than the Sindar or Moriquendi?

The closest Elves, comparably speaking of those you mentioned, to Eol the Teleri are the Silvan Elves of Thranduil that managed that clever vanishing trick whenever Thorin and company came near them in Mirkwood. But does this ability (and that vanishing trick is the only one I recall from the Silvans) really compare to Eol's power? Casting webs of enchantment and bewilderment throughout a forest, designing the impervious galvorn armor, and creating enchanted malevolent swords that can speak?

If we go strictly by his crafting ability, isn't Eol on par with the Noldor in that respect, even though Eol never set foot in Aman, nor had Aule or Mahtan as tutors? Eol trafficked with the Dwarves, and there were exquisite pieces crafted by Telchar of Nogrod, but that doesn't explain Eol's ability to imbue pieces with arcane abilities (again, which in every other case seems the sovereign domain of the Noldor).

My only theory is that Eol was a 'firstborn' and those Elves (which would include Cirdan I suppose) had some innate powers beyond that of your everyday Elf (because not every Noldo had such abilities; at least, very few whose craft stood the test of time).

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Originally Posted by Morthoron

As half-Maia, I always discount Luthien in comparison to full-blooded Elves when it comes to arcane abilities (It's quite reasonable to believe she got the 'magic' gene from Momma, because Thingol really shows no aptitude for magic -- but he did set foot on Aman, however briefly). You then rattle off Finrod, Feanor and Galadriel, but don't we take it for granted that the Noldo who came from Aman are intrinsically more powerful than the Sindar or Moriquendi?

The closest Elves, comparably speaking of those you mentioned, to Eol the Teleri are the Silvan Elves of Thranduil that managed that clever vanishing trick whenever Thorin and company came near them in Mirkwood. But does this ability (and that vanishing trick is the only one I recall from the Silvans) really compare to Eol's power? Casting webs of enchantment and bewilderment throughout a forest, designing the impervious galvorn armor, and creating enchanted malevolent swords that can speak?

If we go strictly by his crafting ability, isn't Eol on par with the Noldor in that respect, even though Eol never set foot in Aman, nor had Aule or Mahtan as tutors? Eol trafficked with the Dwarves, and there were exquisite pieces crafted by Telchar of Nogrod, but that doesn't explain Eol's ability to imbue pieces with arcane abilities (again, which in every other case seems the sovereign domain of the Noldor).

Guess what I'm trying to say is that all Elves had certain, how should I say, 'magical' abilities, although they would not use that term themselves, as they considered it perfectly natural. I also believe that many among them had a capacity to craft 'animated' objects, inbued with their spirit and intent, although I agree that this ability generally would be more developed among the Noldor who had lived in Aman under the tutelage of the Ainur.

Take for example the rather remarkable cloaks the Fellowship recieved in Lorien. When an amazed Pippin asked if they were magic cloaks, the Elves didn't really know what he meant:

...They are Elvish robes certainly, if that is what you mean. Leaf and branch, water and stone: they have the hue and beauty of all these things under the twilight of Lorien that we love; for we put the thought of all that we love into all that we make.

Although it could be argued that Galadriel had a hand in making there cloaks, I still think my point has some merit. And just because Thingol fex. doesn't use 'magic' within the tales, doesn't mean he was incapable of it.

Now Eöl was by all accounts a very talented Elf (not to mention a lady-killer of note) and his powers seemed to've surpassed most of the Teleri and even Noldor. Was this because he was a first-born? Could be, but that is of course impossible to know for sure.