The Nine Walkers

[radagastly]

I think that Elrond was looking at the bigger picture. Rivendell was "The Last Homely House," the last refuge of all the elves of Middle-Earth on their way into the West. Such a place must be well defended, at the very least. Certainly his own presence, with his Ring, was needed right where it was. That doesn't mean he would have been discovered, if he had gone with the Fellowship. Certainly, Gandalf was able to conceal his Ring throughout the story, and there is no reason to believe that Elrond and Galadriel could not do the same. In fact, Galadriel said as much:

'I know what it was that you last saw,' she said; 'for that is also in my mind. Do not be afraid! But do not think that only by singing amid the trees, nor even by the slender arrows of elven-bows, is the land of Lothlorien maintained and defended against its Enemy. I say to you, Frodo, that even as I speak to you, I perceive the Dark Lord and know his mind, or all of his mind that concerns the Elves. And he gropes ever to see me and my thought. But still the door is closed!'

She lifted up her white arms, and spread out her hands towards the East in a gesture of rejection and denial. Earendil, the Evening Star, most beloved of the Elves, shone clear above. So bright was it that the figure of the Elven-lady cast a dim shadow on the ground. Its rays glanced upon a ring about her finger; it glittered like polished gold overlaid with silver light, and a white stone in it twinkled as if the Even-star had come down to rest upon her hand. Frodo gazed at the ring with awe; for suddenly it seemed to him that he understood.

'Yes,' she said, divininng his thought, 'it is not permitted to speak of it, and Elrond could not do so. But it cannot be hidden from the Ring-bearer, and one who has seen the Eye. Verily it is in the land of Lorien upon the finger of Galadriel that one of the Three remains. This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and I am its keeper.

'He suspects, but he does not know--not yet. Do you not see now wherefore your coming is to us as the footstep of Doom? For if you fail, then we are laid bare to the Enemy. Yet if you secceed, then our power is diminished, and Lothlorien will fade, and the tides of Time will sweep it away. We must depart into the West, or dwindle to a rustic folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten.'

That should be enough to know that Sauron was looking for any sign or presence of any of the Three. For Elrond to venture forth with the Fellowship would have brought the Enemy down on them immediately:

'He suspects, but he does not know--not yet.

Obviously, Sauron was not stupid. He had figured out where the Three were most likely to be hiding. He simply could not 'detect' them the way he (or the Nazgul) could 'detect' the One. He simply wasn't sure. "Doubt ever gnaws him." as Gandalf put it.

In addition, while Lothlorien seemed to live in the Old Days (whatever that may mean,) Rivendell seemed to recall the best parts of them without imposing them on the visitors. (I forget where it is described as such, I think it's Sam talking, but if anyone can find it, I'd be grateful.) And, of course, the Ring of Fire, at the Havens, would rekindle their hearts for the voyage ahead. There were very few that knew that Cirdan had given his Ring to Gandalf. Possibly even Elrond and Galadriel did not know for sure.

To sum up, Lothlorien was the world of Eternity that the Elves lived their daily lives in, Rivendell was the transition towards the inevitable, mundane world of Men, and the Ring of Fire, (which should have been at the Havens with Cirdan) gave the Elves the final strength of will to venture across the Sea, to the Undying Lands. Most of them who were left had never been there. Not even Elrond himself. If Elrond had taken his Ring away from Rivendell, it might well have destroyed any chance his people had of escaping the evils of Middle-Earth and finding Peace in Valinor. Don't think for a second that he didn't know that. To take his Ring from Rivendell would have stopped the migration in its tracks.

As for possibly sending Glorfindel, I believe Elrond had strategic reasons for keeping him. If Sauron even suspected that one of the Three resided in Rivendell, he would have assailed it with all the forces he could muster and spare. Until the One was destroyed (or lost), keeping the Three a secret would have to be utmost in Elrond's mind. Therefore, at the very least, he would have to 'hold out' until all was lost, and probably fight an epic battle in his own house to do so. Having Glorfindel, the only character in the book besides Gandalf who ever killed a Balrog, would be a great benefit in such a fight.

Originally Posted by Mansun
This is a good response which shows deep understanding and organisation. However, the lore and power of Elrond was sorely needed in Minas Tirith at the uttermost end of need prior to the siege of Gondor. His coming would have renewed hope to Gondor. We may have even seen an army of elves or high elves follow him to Gondor at the eleventh hour, as in the Two Towers film in Helm's Deep.

Unfortunately, by this time, Elrond was a virtual stranger in Gondor:

from The Council of Elrond:
Of these words we could understand little, and we spoke to our father, Denethor, Lord of Minas Tirith, wise in the lore of Gondor. This only would he say, that Imladris was of old the name among the Elves of a far northern dale, where Elrond and Halfelven dwelt, greatest of lore-masters.

This seems to be the only reference to Elrond from Gondor in the entire book. (If anyone can find any other, please let me know.) It is probably all that Denethor knew of him; his name. Add this to the fact that Minas Tirith was not their intended destination (except for Boromir and Aragorn) and it would have done little good for him to go, and a great deal of harm for him to leave. As for Elrond 'summoning' the Council:

from The Council of Elrond:
'That is the purpose for which you are called hither. Called, I say, though I have not called you to me, strangers from distant lands. You have come and are here met, in this very nick of time, by chance as it may seem. Yet it is not so. Believe rather that it is so ordered that we, who sit here, and none others, must now find counsel for the peril of the world.'

Denethor's knowledge of Elrond seems to be an invention of the Extended edition of the movies, understandable shorthand, but without basis in the source story. He was, at best, an obscure legend, perhaps even a myth, but nothing more. Just enough for Boromir to go north to seek him, though he left Gondor months before Frodo left Hobbiton. Even if Elrond had come to Minas Tirith, the Battle of the Pellannor Fields would have been lost before Denethor would have admitted him to his hall. He would have been a nobody.

Originally Posted by radagastly

This seems to be the only reference to Elrond from Gondor in the entire book. (If anyone can find any other, please let me know.) It is probably all that Denethor knew of him; his name. Add this to the fact that Minas Tirith was not their intended destination (except for Boromir and Aragorn) and it would have done little good for him to go, and a great deal of harm for him to leave.

Elrond was side by side with Isildur and Elendil during the Last Alliance's stand against Mordor 3,000 years before. For Denethor not to know enough lore to have heard an account of Elrond's doings during the second age against Sauron would be unthinkable. Elrond is every bit a legend as Elendil and Isildur in Middle Earth lore, and given that Denethor knows he is the wisest of all loremasters, ahead of Saruman even, he must have had other information bestowed about him, as one cannot just accept this view without a source of enormous credibility.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Mansun

Elrond was side by side with Isildur and Elendil during the Last Alliance's stand against Mordor 3,000 years before. For Denethor not to know enough lore to have heard an account of Elrond's doings during the second age against Sauron would be unthinkable. Elrond is every bit a legend as Elendil and Isildur in Middle Earth lore, and given that Denethor knows he is the wisest of all loremasters, ahead of Saruman even, he must have had other information bestowed about him, as one cannot just accept this view without a source of enormous credibility.

Originally Posted by from The Council of Elrond:

Of these words we could understand little, and we spoke to our father, Denethor, Lord of Minas Tirith, wise in the lore of Gondor. This only would he say, that Imladris was of old the name among the Elves of a far northern dale, where Elrond and Halfelven dwelt, greatest of lore-masters.

It doesn't seem that Boromir had more than the vaguest clue about Elrond, and Denethor only perhaps a bit more (hence, a desperate but almost blind journey north for help). Remember, Denethor accused Faramir of being a 'wizard's pupil' and denigrated his son for studying the past. Denethor had his store of wisdom, but it was not deep. Being ensnared by Sauron when he used the Palantir (when none of the Stewards previous to him dared touch it) is proof positive that he lacked historical perspective.

Besides, based on the incontravertible evidence (representing several different views of the same point) presented by the last five posters (Eonwe, Radagastly, Man-of-the Wold, Bêthberry and myself), there was no chance of any army or Elrond himself leaving Rivendell; and, in any case, such a move would have failed.

[radagastly]

Originally posted by Mansun:

Elrond was side by side with Isildur and Elendil during the Last Alliance's stand against Mordor 3,000 years before.

True enough, though I suspect any of his accomplishments were probably eclipsed in the books of lore in Minas Tirith by the presence of Gil-galad, for whom he was the herald. Especially since those books would have to have been written by Isildur:

From The Fellowship fo the Ring, The Council of Elrond:

"Alas! yes," said Elrond. "Isildur took it, as should not have been. It should have been cast then int Orodruin's fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-galad only Cirdan stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our counsel.

Isildur was the only man to witness the battle, and he had every reason to downplay the role of the any other Elves in whatever lore he may have written about it. He had just defied their advice to destroy the One Ring, which was already preying on his mind, based on the quote from his writing at that time spoken by Gandalf during the Council of Elrond:

and maybe were the gold made hot again, the writing would be refreshed. But for my part I will risk no hurt to this thing: of all the works of Sauron the only fair. It is precious to me, though I buy it with great pain.

In that state, he would have tried his best to keep names like "Elrond" and "Cirdan" at a minimum in any of the histories that he wrote. Such names would lead to questions. Denethor would have very little lore to go on, even if he bothered to study. As Gandalf quoted him:

But unless you have more skill even than Saruman, who has studied here long, you will find naught that is not well know to me, who am master of the lore of this City.

Yet the very next paragraph reveals that there was a great deal of lore that Denethor had never read, including the document about the Ring.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by radagastly

Yet the very next paragraph reveals that there was a great deal of lore that Denethor had never read, including the document about the Ring.

Very true. Due to his lack of research, Denethor never truly grasped the grave implications of having the Ring. He coveted it greatly (and his covetousness, nutured by the dissembling visions of Sauron in the Palantir, drew him to the straits of desperation and madness), but he did not understand its all-consuming nature, something that Faramir comprehended quite readily, and Boromir only understood as he lay dying.

Originally Posted by radagastly

Originally posted by Mansun:

True enough, though I suspect any of his accomplishments were probably eclipsed in the books of lore in Minas Tirith by the presence of Gil-galad, for whom he was the herald. Especially since those books would have to have been written by Isildur:

It appears to me that this seems to imply along with the comments of other posters, that Denethor only sent Boromir to Rivendell for the Ring, and not to seek counsel from Elrond, of whom Denethor rated higher in wisdom even than Sauron himself.

[radagastly]

Originally posted by Mansun:

It appears to me that this seems to imply along with the comments of other posters, that Denethor only sent Boromir to Rivendell for the Ring, and not to seek counsel from Elrond, of whom Denethor rated higher in wisdom even than Sauron himself.

I would agree this was the motive in the movie, especially the Extended Edition, but this quote from The Council of Elrond seems to imply otherwise (at least for the book):

At this the stranger, Boromir, broke in. "So that is what became of the Ring!" he cried. "If ever such a tale was told in the South, it has long been forgotten. I have heard of the Great Ring of him that we do not name; but we believed that it perished from the world in the ruin of his first realm. Isildur took it! That is tidings indeed."

Boromir, at least, seems genuinely surprised that the Ring still even exists. Looking through The Return of the King doesn't seem to reveal any indication that Denethor knew any more about it than his elder son. Even the Palantir of Minas Tirith did not seem to find any news of it (and a good thing too, since Sauron would have probably then spotted it as well, and Frodo would probably never have reached Cirith Ungol, much less Orodruin.)

I suspect that Denethor did not send Boromir to Rivendell so much as relent and permit him to go:

Loth was my father to give me leave, and long have I wandered by roads forgotten, seeking the house of Elrond, of which many had heard, but few knew where it lay.

[MatthewM]

radagastly is right. Boromir pressed Denethor to even let him go on the errand. Boromir wanted the meaning of a riddle, not the Ring until he saw it.