Is Legolas afraid to get his nails dirty? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eönwë · 09-16-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skip spence

So unless those flets were hooked up to some good plumbing, the answer is no: much like ladies, Elves produce no excrement.

What about Balrogs and Melian, though? Or even the Istari? (though I suppose they must, as they actually have the body of men.)

I must agree with skip spence that if you saw an elf doing manual work (other than smithing, which could be made to look elegant), then they lose their grace. So did elves build houses and flets, or did they get "lesser" beings to do it for them. And furniture too.

And also, I think that elves' strength is more strength within and about themselves, like quick running, high and far jumping (though I'm sure that one of the criteria to be in the fellowship was to be a good jumper), and a lot of strength in fighting. Oh, and mentally.
I just don't think that their strength is expressed in such primitive ways as "lifting stuff up".

bilbo_baggins · 09-16-2008, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eönwë

What about Balrogs and Melian, though? Or even the Istari? (though I suppose they must, as they actually have the body of men.)

I must agree with skip spence that if you saw an elf doing manual work (other than smithing, which could be made to look elegant), then they lose their grace. So did elves build houses and flets, or did they get "lesser" beings to do it for them. And furniture too.

...

Agreed. The Istari must have had mostly normal functions, although I can't think of an instance where Radagast, Gandalf, or Saruman betray their human weakness.

But I have to ask: what about smithing could ever be elegant? It's long, hard work dealing with some of the hardest, most enduring elements in their world (save dwarven delving). I'm curious to know how smithing could be seen as elegant. Even in the movies, banging on Anduril to reforge it looks like quite a physical achievement.

As for lesser beings making things for the Elves, what about Gondolin? If no one was allowed to depart or enter (save for a very fortunate few), then the furniture and buildings inside must have been built by the Elves themselves. Or else, the Gondolin Elves were rather ascetic and disdained such low and common things as houses and furniture...

Quote:

Originally Posted by skip spence

To return to Mr. Baggins musing: if we picture Galadriel retreating behind a bush with some leaves and a newspaper her aura of magic and mystery quickly dissipates.

Yes, that would destroy the aura, and I believe that is why JRR neglected to inform us of her "extended-reading" habits, with her copy of "The Lorien Libelous" or "Rivendell Report."

I suppose another theoretical argument for denying Elves the right to partake of such lowly practices would be that the sheer volume produced by a single Elf over their extended lifespan would be phenomenal.

Eönwë · 09-17-2008, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilbo_baggins

I suppose another theoretical argument for denying Elves the right to partake of such lowly practices would be that the sheer volume produced by a single Elf over their extended lifespan would be phenomenal.

Maybe that's why they never seem to die of starvation- They always have fertie crops.

But that means that I must ask: Do elves farm?

Lush · 09-18-2008, 02:05 PM

Quote:

That it does. And that brings on another question. Did elves sweat?

I am just too much of a lady to tell you.

Seriously, I really like Mark's (Helen's) post up there. It's really, really good. I think Tolkien wanted to illustrate one specific change in Legolas - the development of the friendship with Gimli - and that had to involve a bit less dazzle bravado and a little bit more, hm, genuineness, I guess?

Eönwë · 10-06-2008, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bilbo_baggins

I suppose another theoretical argument for denying Elves the right to partake of such lowly practices would be that the sheer volume produced by a single Elf over their extended lifespan would be phenomenal.

Well, having looked through some old threads, I can't resist putting this up here.

mark12_30 · 10-07-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.R.R.Tolkien

....while possessing (if I could achieve it) the fair elusive beauty that some call Celtic (though it is rarely found in genuine ancient Celtic things), it should be 'high', purged of the gross, and fit for the more adult mind of a land long now steeped in poetry.

One of the most key elements of Tolkien's work, and, sometimes, one of the least appreciated.

mark12_30 · 10-07-2008, 01:27 PM

thread

mark12_30 · 10-07-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Well, having looked through some old threads, I can't resist putting this up here.

Great find.

Tuor in Gondolin · 10-08-2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LotR; Lothlórien
On the land of Lórien there was no stain.

So unless those flets were hooked up to some good plumbing, the answer is no: much like ladies, Elves produce no excrement.

Well, where do you think the fertilizer to make Lorien so
fertile came from?

I don't recall Lorien had large quantities
of animals of any kind.

But seriously (sort of) "dim" views of excrement, like sex, seem
more of a limited medievalish worldview then anything else. Why
would enlightened elves see them as more then a natural aspect of
Iluvitar's creation?

Morthoron · 10-08-2008, 08:41 AM

Perhaps Elves, being so attuned to nature, do not necessarily require making mountains out of dung hills...or crops for that matter. In their ability to 'speak' to flora and fauna (as realized in the awakening in Cuivienen which included teaching Ents to speak), maybe, like ancient fertility gods and godesses (and Yavanna to an even greater extent certainly resembles one of these), they sang for their supper (or rather the grain for making said meal).

P.S. As far as other provender, we know the elves hunted deer, and as everyone knows, deer hunts, at least in England, were more or less the sole province of royalty and punishable by death for poaching on crown land (hence, one of Thranduil's sources of irritation at the dwarves in Mirkwood)

Faramir Jones · 10-09-2008, 03:14 AM

Morthoron, I don't recall the dwarves being imprisoned for poaching. The ElvenKing said, in response to Balin's question, that it was a crime to wander in his realm without leave. He also mentioned that they stirred up the spiders. Therefore, he was going to keep them in jail until they gave him a reasonable explanation for what they were doing in his kingdom.

10-07-2008, 01:27 PM	#7
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	thread __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-08-2008, 08:41 AM	#10
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	Perhaps Elves, being so attuned to nature, do not necessarily require making mountains out of dung hills...or crops for that matter. In their ability to 'speak' to flora and fauna (as realized in the awakening in Cuivienen which included teaching Ents to speak), maybe, like ancient fertility gods and godesses (and Yavanna to an even greater extent certainly resembles one of these), they sang for their supper (or rather the grain for making said meal). P.S. As far as other provender, we know the elves hunted deer, and as everyone knows, deer hunts, at least in England, were more or less the sole province of royalty and punishable by death for poaching on crown land (hence, one of Thranduil's sources of irritation at the dwarves in Mirkwood) __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. Last edited by Morthoron; 10-08-2008 at 10:18 AM.

10-09-2008, 03:14 AM	#11
Faramir Jones Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Lonely Isle Posts: 706	Dwarves were illegal aliens Morthoron, I don't recall the dwarves being imprisoned for poaching. The ElvenKing said, in response to Balin's question, that it was a crime to wander in his realm without leave. He also mentioned that they stirred up the spiders. Therefore, he was going to keep them in jail until they gave him a reasonable explanation for what they were doing in his kingdom.