Tol-in-Gaurhoth LI: The Pain of Wargs - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nogrod · 10-09-2008, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaunt

Now if you, who I gather to be an experienced werewolf player, knew that you could do something to improve your chances of winning, I think you would do it
...
I think you would really think that people trying to win MAKES for a good game.

First sentence: I agree in part; the second one: agreed fully. A game where there is winning and losing isn't a good game if someone tries to lose in purpose. But playing by trying to only maximise one's chances of winning or staying alive is not my piece of cake. *maybe that's the reason I never became an investment banker*

When I'm a wolf I want to have challenges and keep the dangerous players around - then I either lose with dignity and pride or win with the greatest spoils there are. When innocent I try to keep the discussion going, suspecting everyone as much as I can to really open the discussions and to help other people who will actually play and not just hun'ker down to stay alive - it oftentimes leads to an untimely death because I'm not rubbing all the people the nice way, but it has been worth it if it's been fun or if it later helps the village to find out the culprits.

Quote:

Or I could be completely over-analysing this.

The level of analysing is fine. It's very good indeed! But you only over-estimate my thrive to win with any means.

Rune Son of Bjarne · 10-09-2008, 09:30 AM

Alright, I am running late and have little idea who to vote for, but hopefully I will by the end of this post.

Lets start with the people I am not going to vote for:

Groin: He has this air of innocens around him. . . It is not that I agree with him as such, but it is the fact that he does not seem the least bit manipulative.

Kath: It is annoying that she is not around, but I really want her around at least for another day.

Nogrod: Because he seem very Nogrod-ish and this normaly means he is innocent, but I am probably going to change my mind later in the game. . .I mean it is Nogrod.

Gaunt:I need more time to analyse

Lommy: A mixture of what I said about Nogrod and Gaunt.
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Might vote for:

Mithalwen: She does the same as yesterday, she is hear says some not too controversial things and the nothing. (unless you count that thing about Lommy acting weird as controversial) Whenever I encounter this I get a fear that people are trying to fly under the radar, I might vote for her again today.

Brinn: She insists on not voting and then appologises, says she has to vote soon because of RL things and then seems to leave. I might have misunderstood her though. Does some of the same as Mith, take that middle ground where you are not vocal and not non-vocal.

Legate: He just confuses me, I simply cannot get a read on him. . .but since I have no actual case other than that it seems unfair to vote for him at this stage.

Allright I am going to go for Mith again . . . . It is not a personal thing, but I just haven't had the chance to do proper analysing today. (one should not think so with all the posts)

++Mithalwen
[/FONT]

EDIT: Cross Posted With Nogrod and Gwath

Mithalwen · 10-09-2008, 10:29 AM

Great - Rune has voted for me for having a job. Or maybe being ill or having to spend time with the Ancient Parent on his birthday. Fantastic.

May as well go home now and be ill in comfort. Frankly it does seems personal. "It isn't personal" it is -one of those phrases where the meaning is the exact opposite of the literal semantics like "With the greatest respect", "it's not you, it's me", "I'm FINE". And if I seem irritable - that is because I am. Fever and nausea does that to you.

Gaunt · 10-09-2008, 10:42 AM

I am not going to vote for Nogrod today, I think. I will give it some more time to see if he is innocent or if he is manipulating me very skillfully.

And part of my reason for this is that Redbeard does seem to have made the case against Nogrod based on little more than him once lightly criticising a player for not taking part enough.

Hmm

Gaunt · 10-09-2008, 11:07 AM

More thoughts on the Nogrod-Redbeard axis.

Having read over the posts again, I am still suspicious of Nogrod. His actions (and possible actions) so far, when viewed together strike me as forming a pattern that could be, and I don't say definitely is, a werewolf strategy.

I have already discussed his mild hostility towards light participants. But he voted for Samwise - one of the clearest voices on the first day. If we assume he is a werewolf and he killed Kitanna, there is another attack on a player whose contribution, if not the most prominent, was certainly visible.

So the strategy that I propose he may be following is this: pick off strong players one by one whilst gently convincing others to vote for the less prominent wargs. This seems to work because a lot of the experienced players have a hard time suspecting him of anything because they see this as the way he always behaves. That may be so, but observe that his vote didn't exactly follow the message he has been putting across in his posts.

As for Redbeard, whilst he may be right in suspecting Nogrod, I don't think he suspects him for the right reasons. He just seemed to single-mindedly launch into his attacks on Nogrod without a great deal of evidence. If he had made the case as I have above then I would have been more convinced. But that's not to say that I necessarily think there is much reason to believe Redbeard is a werewolf. I'm trying to think why he would be targeting Nogrod if he was a werewolf. I suppose he could just be turning on an outspoken player to take attention away from himself.

Brinniel · 10-09-2008, 11:16 AM

A lot of my suspicion or non-suspicion toDay has to do with tone. I don't have time to throroughly read each post and pick out specific quotes I find odd as one might normally do. But then again, tone is an important part of this game. Sometimes it's easier to spot a wolf not based on what they say, but how they say it. Which is why I'm voting for:

++Groin

Because as I stated, there's something in his tone that seems false to me.

That's it from me...I must be off to class again. I hope I'll still be alive come toMorrow so that I can actually participate. I just feel bad when I'm not able to be as active as I normally am...and I hate having to vote so early (there you go, typical procrastinator mindset

).

Gollum the Great · 10-09-2008, 11:43 AM

I have returned.

Looking at "The Prophecy Thingamijig Part II", it seems that if the true wargs gather together (which seems pretty hard to do) our deliverance will be through chance. The originator of the evil at this gathering is coming closer (closer, perhaps, to revealing himself) but someone is following him. These two- the originator and the follower- are both marching on the axis- apparently our traitors.

Just my interpretation.

Kath · 10-09-2008, 11:44 AM

Hi all. I'm going to make a couple of posts before dinner and then hopefully I'll be able to be around right up until the deadline. I want to look at what Samwise said yesterDay and how and by whom it got him killed. I'd also like to look at what Kitanna said yesterDay because her death does seem pretty random and I somehow doubt that it really was. Then with what I get from those I'll have a look at what's been going on toDay.

Yeah, you probably didn't actually need to know all that but I figured I'd let you know that I am around and doing something.

Brinniel · 10-09-2008, 10:58 AM

The age old question: Can we ever get through a WW game without the quiet/loud player debate? I think it can be mutually agreed that wolves can fall into either category just as easily...

Okay, as far as voting candidates go (coming from my earlier process of elimination):

Lommy: I actually agree with others that she does seem to be acting a bit differently. I don't know what it is...perhaps her tone. In earlier days I probably would've thought this suspicous...but then I think back to a couple games ago when Lommy was a wolf, yet seemed so innocent to me...she actually managed to fly under the radar in that game. And this time it's completely different. I almost want to say that there's a cobblerish feel to her posts, but we don't even know if there is a cobbler. But as of right now, she just doesn't look furry to me.

Legate: I think the same thing can be said of him as I said about Nogrod: He's dangerous as a wolf, but very helpful as an innocent. I can't get a good read on him right now, but I can't help but feel wary. I know how a Legate-wolf can easily fool an entire village.

Gwath: Looking through his posts toDay, I think he seems innocentish. I just feel that there's an honest quality about him.

Groin: Not so innocent, I feel. From the very beginning of toDay, his arguments just feel fabricated and his tone false. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but his words just seem too carefully placed.

10-09-2008, 10:29 AM	#3
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Great - Rune has voted for me for having a job. Or maybe being ill or having to spend time with the Ancient Parent on his birthday. Fantastic. May as well go home now and be ill in comfort. Frankly it does seems personal. "It isn't personal" it is -one of those phrases where the meaning is the exact opposite of the literal semantics like "With the greatest respect", "it's not you, it's me", "I'm FINE". And if I seem irritable - that is because I am. Fever and nausea does that to you. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

10-09-2008, 11:07 AM	#5
Gaunt Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The bleak splendour of the north. Ok, Aberdeen. Posts: 28	More thoughts on the Nogrod-Redbeard axis. Having read over the posts again, I am still suspicious of Nogrod. His actions (and possible actions) so far, when viewed together strike me as forming a pattern that could be, and I don't say definitely is, a werewolf strategy. I have already discussed his mild hostility towards light participants. But he voted for Samwise - one of the clearest voices on the first day. If we assume he is a werewolf and he killed Kitanna, there is another attack on a player whose contribution, if not the most prominent, was certainly visible. So the strategy that I propose he may be following is this: pick off strong players one by one whilst gently convincing others to vote for the less prominent wargs. This seems to work because a lot of the experienced players have a hard time suspecting him of anything because they see this as the way he always behaves. That may be so, but observe that his vote didn't exactly follow the message he has been putting across in his posts. As for Redbeard, whilst he may be right in suspecting Nogrod, I don't think he suspects him for the right reasons. He just seemed to single-mindedly launch into his attacks on Nogrod without a great deal of evidence. If he had made the case as I have above then I would have been more convinced. But that's not to say that I necessarily think there is much reason to believe Redbeard is a werewolf. I'm trying to think why he would be targeting Nogrod if he was a werewolf. I suppose he could just be turning on an outspoken player to take attention away from himself. Last edited by Gaunt; 10-09-2008 at 11:09 AM. Reason: grammar

10-09-2008, 11:16 AM	#6
Brinniel Reflection of Darkness Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull. Posts: 2,983	A lot of my suspicion or non-suspicion toDay has to do with tone. I don't have time to throroughly read each post and pick out specific quotes I find odd as one might normally do. But then again, tone is an important part of this game. Sometimes it's easier to spot a wolf not based on what they say, but how they say it. Which is why I'm voting for: ++Groin Because as I stated, there's something in his tone that seems false to me. That's it from me...I must be off to class again. I hope I'll still be alive come toMorrow so that I can actually participate. I just feel bad when I'm not able to be as active as I normally am...and I hate having to vote so early (there you go, typical procrastinator mindset ). __________________ Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

10-09-2008, 11:43 AM	#7
Gollum the Great Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The Pinnacle of my own might Posts: 386	I have returned. Looking at "The Prophecy Thingamijig Part II", it seems that if the true wargs gather together (which seems pretty hard to do) our deliverance will be through chance. The originator of the evil at this gathering is coming closer (closer, perhaps, to revealing himself) but someone is following him. These two- the originator and the follower- are both marching on the axis- apparently our traitors. Just my interpretation. __________________ 'It just shows you how true it is that one-half the world doesn't knows how the other three-quarters lives.' Bertie, The Code of the Woosters, by P. G. Wodewouse

10-09-2008, 11:44 AM	#8
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	Hi all. I'm going to make a couple of posts before dinner and then hopefully I'll be able to be around right up until the deadline. I want to look at what Samwise said yesterDay and how and by whom it got him killed. I'd also like to look at what Kitanna said yesterDay because her death does seem pretty random and I somehow doubt that it really was. Then with what I get from those I'll have a look at what's been going on toDay. Yeah, you probably didn't actually need to know all that but I figured I'd let you know that I am around and doing something. __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

10-09-2008, 10:42 AM	#4
Gaunt Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The bleak splendour of the north. Ok, Aberdeen. Posts: 28	I am not going to vote for Nogrod today, I think. I will give it some more time to see if he is innocent or if he is manipulating me very skillfully. And part of my reason for this is that Redbeard does seem to have made the case against Nogrod based on little more than him once lightly criticising a player for not taking part enough. Hmm

10-09-2008, 10:58 AM	#9
Brinniel Reflection of Darkness Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull. Posts: 2,983	The age old question: Can we ever get through a WW game without the quiet/loud player debate? I think it can be mutually agreed that wolves can fall into either category just as easily... Okay, as far as voting candidates go (coming from my earlier process of elimination): Lommy: I actually agree with others that she does seem to be acting a bit differently. I don't know what it is...perhaps her tone. In earlier days I probably would've thought this suspicous...but then I think back to a couple games ago when Lommy was a wolf, yet seemed so innocent to me...she actually managed to fly under the radar in that game. And this time it's completely different. I almost want to say that there's a cobblerish feel to her posts, but we don't even know if there is a cobbler. But as of right now, she just doesn't look furry to me. Legate: I think the same thing can be said of him as I said about Nogrod: He's dangerous as a wolf, but very helpful as an innocent. I can't get a good read on him right now, but I can't help but feel wary. I know how a Legate-wolf can easily fool an entire village. Gwath: Looking through his posts toDay, I think he seems innocentish. I just feel that there's an honest quality about him. Groin: Not so innocent, I feel. From the very beginning of toDay, his arguments just feel fabricated and his tone false. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but his words just seem too carefully placed. __________________ Nolite te bastardes carborundorum