More! More! More! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**lindil** · 10-29-2008, 10:37 AM

Re: Boromir88's internal/external thing. I must agree with BB and H.I.

The line between JRRT's co-creation and our co-experience is better when it is dissolved or very, very thin.

Indeed, I would go so far as to say learning something like Tai-Chi will allow one to enter the realm where co-creation *is* the very air one breaths - so that all those well read texts gain a completely new lease on life. Any skill where one carefully and consciously learns to experience life with the body energised, the heart open and the mind clear all at once, will open this door, JRRT's magic [literally] is that he could by and large do it for us, 'without going out of our chair'. But such a gift over time must be earned or it becomes a mere shadow of itself.

With any Lit., but the Legendarium in particular, it is all about WHO is doing the reading, how deeply in one's true self are you whilst reading? Of course the tales draw one in farther than one's everyday state - thus the initial attraction, but to use that wisely, too let it guide our lives to a certain degree - to pull us higher than we might think to climb ourselves - therein lies the value of the stories [imo].

As for the layers of M-E glimpsed one behind the other in TH, LOtR, Silm, UT etc. sooner or later one will reach the end of the story, and we must choose one of 3 things:

*go back to page one of TH

*go back to life and see how we can approach it in a more real/magical/virtuous, etc fashion

*log into the Downs

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~j.g. bennett :: deeper man ~~~~~~~~~~~~
possibly the best guide to what I was trying to talk about.

mark12_30 · 10-29-2008, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindil

As for the layers of M-E glimpsed one behind the other in TH, LOtR, Silm, UT etc. sooner or later one will reach the end of the story, and we must choose one of 3 things:

*go back to page one of TH
*go back to life and see how we can approach it in a more real/magical/virtuous, etc fashion
*log into the Downs

Ah, lindil. Thank you for saying so. I have been ravenous for, if not eucatastrophe, at least revelation. And so back-- not to Tolkien, but through or behind him, to St John and St Paul; back to the Ainulindale, forward to the Final Music-- the soul of Valinor is Agape, even to the elves strewing jewels on the sands, the shining of Valinor is Shekinah-- ...Lord, Enlighten me.

But even then I still log onto the Downs, or listen-- one more time-- to "Use Well the Days".

Selador · 11-28-2008, 04:44 PM

I am reminded of the move The Prestige, wherein Michael Caine's character explains the second act of every magic trick:

"The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you’re looking for the secret. But you won’t find it. Because of course, you’re not really looking. You don’t really want to know. You want to be fooled."

I did feel like that after reading Lord of the Rings. That is, I didn't feel any need to know any more, and I did sense that all the glimpses of the greater story were better left as such and only made the story itself more fascinating. What I did crave, however, was more of JRRT's storytelling. I suppose that is why I was never overly thrilled with the Silm. I do like it, and it is very interesting and informative, but it is all too brief and sketchy for me. I much prefer the fuller, more descriptive texts of UT (overlooking all the academic interruptions). And Eru bless Christopher for finishing and publishing CoH! Yes! A fully rendered tale from the master storyteller himself interrupted only by Alan Lee's amazing artwork. Bliss!

Lush · 11-28-2008, 05:52 PM

How do most of us see human history? Even the history of our own little lives?

Through glimpses - remembered, or imagined.

mark12_30 · 12-05-2008, 02:15 PM

And sometimes, the glimpses of our real world that somehow cry "Eriador!" to us, make the glimpses of the legendarium that much more poignant.

Once, driving with my mom when I was a young teen, I caught sight of a hillside that cried out "Shire!" to me. I said "Ooooh!" out loud. And then cound't explain why to my mom.

11-28-2008, 05:52 PM	#4
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	How do most of us see human history? Even the history of our own little lives? Through glimpses - remembered, or imagined. __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

12-05-2008, 02:15 PM	#5
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	And sometimes, the glimpses of our real world that somehow cry "Eriador!" to us, make the glimpses of the legendarium that much more poignant. Once, driving with my mom when I was a young teen, I caught sight of a hillside that cried out "Shire!" to me. I said "Ooooh!" out loud. And then cound't explain why to my mom. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

10-29-2008, 10:37 AM	#1
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Re: Boromir88's internal/external thing. I must agree with BB and H.I. The line between JRRT's co-creation and our co-experience is better when it is dissolved or very, very thin. Indeed, I would go so far as to say learning something like Tai-Chi will allow one to enter the realm where co-creation is the very air one breaths - so that all those well read texts gain a completely new lease on life. Any skill where one carefully and consciously learns to experience life with the body energised, the heart open and the mind clear all at once, will open this door, JRRT's magic [literally] is that he could by and large do it for us, 'without going out of our chair'. But such a gift over time must be earned or it becomes a mere shadow of itself. With any Lit., but the Legendarium in particular, it is all about WHO is doing the reading, how deeply in one's true self are you whilst reading? Of course the tales draw one in farther than one's everyday state - thus the initial attraction, but to use that wisely, too let it guide our lives to a certain degree - to pull us higher than we might think to climb ourselves - therein lies the value of the stories [imo]. As for the layers of M-E glimpsed one behind the other in TH, LOtR, Silm, UT etc. sooner or later one will reach the end of the story, and we must choose one of 3 things: go back to page one of TH go back to life and see how we can approach it in a more real/magical/virtuous, etc fashion *log into the Downs ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~j.g. bennett :: deeper man ~~~~~~~~~~~~ possibly the best guide to what I was trying to talk about.

11-28-2008, 04:44 PM	#3
Selador Pile O'Bones Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 16	I am reminded of the move The Prestige, wherein Michael Caine's character explains the second act of every magic trick: "The magician takes the ordinary something and makes it do something extraordinary. Now you’re looking for the secret. But you won’t find it. Because of course, you’re not really looking. You don’t really want to know. You want to be fooled." I did feel like that after reading Lord of the Rings. That is, I didn't feel any need to know any more, and I did sense that all the glimpses of the greater story were better left as such and only made the story itself more fascinating. What I did crave, however, was more of JRRT's storytelling. I suppose that is why I was never overly thrilled with the Silm. I do like it, and it is very interesting and informative, but it is all too brief and sketchy for me. I much prefer the fuller, more descriptive texts of UT (overlooking all the academic interruptions). And Eru bless Christopher for finishing and publishing CoH! Yes! A fully rendered tale from the master storyteller himself interrupted only by Alan Lee's amazing artwork. Bliss!