Why Genealogies?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

So, was Tolkien merely borrowing the anthropological focus on indigenous cultures to characterise his hobbits? Or was something more involved, something which would prompt a Frodo to accept an obligation to preserve the group?

I think it might perhaps be a bit of both, although I'm most inclined to think that Tolkien was attempting to make the Hobbits the "most English" of the peoples of Middle-earth. Genealogy appears to be a pastime of the mortals rather than the immortals, no doubt because there are more generations of Hobbits and Men than there are of Elves (and possibly of Dwarves, but being secretive in nature, we know less about them). There are certainly aspects of the importance of lineage among the descendants of the Numenoreans; remember Faramir's comment to Frodo, "Kings made tombs more splendid than houses of the living, and counted old names in the rolls of their descent dearer than the names of sons." I find it interesting that the tracing of family history is a common interest among the "lowly" Hobbits and the "high" Numenoreans, particularly since it seems a more wholesome pursuit among the Hobbits. The Men of Gondor seem to have made it into something not exactly twisted, but also not quite healthy. In the Hobbits, it feels more like a connection to life, remembering all your relatives as part of one large family. And among the Numenoreans, it feels like a preoccupation with death and an attempt to gain some kind of immortality, in memory if not in the flesh. I often think that the people I know who are genealogy buffs are like the Numenoreans, searching for the nobility of their ancestors so that they can become a part of a family tree that will never die, since they themselves will, and fear becoming forgotton.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Wow, Ibri, it does not allow me to give you a reputation right now, so let me say it just here that I find what you said here very well-thought and very well said, and I would agree with what you say here about both the Hobbits and the Númenoreans (or Men in general, with the kind of "wish to preserve immortality by setting their name into a part of something", either history or inscribing it into stone somewhere. Hey, do not - or did not, maybe? Not as much anymore nowadays? - humans actually do that always, trying to find themselves immortality as part of something that transcends them, a history of a noble family, or a history of a country, a history of a movement?). The only question here would be - how do the Elves fit into the picture? What role does genealogy play among their kind? Except for the status of e.g. inheriting the title of the King of Noldor, there seems not to be much point in that. So, for myself, I would say that the Elves, except for when it comes to inheriting such a title, would actually have little interest for the genealogy themselves, neither of their own (since they could as well just remember it anyway, who is whose cousin, with their long lifespan, even if it had any high importance which I somehow doubt) nor of any other peoples (simply as, said with Lindir, "they have more important matters on their hands"). Maybe with the slight exception of following the lineage of Lúthien, which, however, was just a single and special case. But otherwise, probably just this High King of Noldor heritage and such.
Anyway I still think it is kind of weird for the Elves to have any hierarchy of nobility (an inherited one, the more) in their society at all. But that would be for a different topic.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Anyway I still think it is kind of weird for the Elves to have any hierarchy of nobility (an inherited one, the more) in their society at all. But that would be for a different topic.

Actually, I've often thought that (especially when I read things that make much of Legolas being "an Elven prince" ). "Prince" can merely mean the son of a king, not necessarily someone being groomed to inherit a throne that may never be emptied. Perhaps it made more sense in Middle-earth, where the minions of evil made life more dangerous, and even Elven kings could be slain, never to return to their throne. Even so, I tend to feel that the Elves place less importance on such lineage, because of their immortality, and the fact that two out of three of their first kings are still alive. Some of their family trees are quite short, since few of the Elves appear to have had more than two or three children, and they appear to take a long time before they even decide to contemplate marriage. Because LotR is "Hobbit-centric," the ways of the Elves seem perhaps more mysterious, but to me, it feels as if they are more concerned with finding fulfillment in their own lives than in reflection on the achievements or station of their ancestors -- many of whom are still around and active. In fact, it seems to me that the Elves who do put too much stock in their lineage (as in Feanor and his sons) come to unhappy ends. But that, too, could well be for a different discussion.

[Selmo]

Another thought on the importance of Genealogies:

Perhaps Tolkien first created genealogies for the First Age and earlier simply as a writers tool to help him keep track of who was who among the large number of characters. Were they ever intended for publicatuion?

Having got into the habit he just carried on when he came to write LoTR.
Having the family trees avaiable, perhaps making Hobbits obsesive about family connections was just an afterthought on Tolkien's part, to add a little more colour to Hobbit society.
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