Would Gandalf ever discipline Hobbits? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

alatar · 11-22-2008, 04:52 PM

No.

alatar · 11-22-2008, 06:05 PM

I actually liked the original title to this thread, as when I first read it, I thought that it asked if Gandalf would ever eat hobbits, which I thought had some support, as Gandalf had no problem egging on Bert, Tom and Bill with cannibal culinary advice. I also thought the thread title could be mischievously misinterpretted to mean that Gandalf could beat them in basketball.

That said, in regards to Gandalf physically disciplining the hobbits, we find no evidence in the text that he would so such a thing. He just barks a lot, unless it's orcs or other beasties, then he kills them. No cudgeling some errant orc - swoop, and off with its head.

Peter Jackson and his crew, on the other hand, found ample evidence of Gandalf physically disciplining hobbits, yanking Pippin's and Merry's ears, dragging poor Sam through the window (and using the word "verge"

). He later takes to smacking royalty, finding that just as entertaining (i.e. Theoden the Possessed, and Denethor the Flaming).

So, again in answer, 'No.'

Nerwen · 11-25-2008, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

I actually liked the original title to this thread, as when I first read it, I thought that it asked if Gandalf would ever eat hobbits, which I thought had some support, as Gandalf had no problem egging on Bert, Tom and Bill with cannibal culinary advice.

alatar, I think that's an excellent idea for a thread!

Lalwendë · 11-25-2008, 06:36 AM

Gandalf can be fabulously grumpy, if I was to look for his 'character failings' I'd say having a tendency to be sarcastic and a bit 'short' could be one of them. He is what my grandad would have termed ornery. Maybe this was Tolkien writing the effects of lack of nicotine to the smoker into his story?

But he'd never hit a Hobbit! For one, they aren't children but people and Gandalf recognised this more than most (I dread to think what might have happened had The Shire been closer to Rohan, after the Rohirrim record with hunting the Woses

). What Authority would Gandalf have to do such a thing?! And that's laying aside his personality.

I think the films have led people astray somewhat...

Nerwen · 11-25-2008, 07:24 AM

Hey, children are people too, you know!

Lalwendë · 11-25-2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hey, children are people too, you know!

I ought to know that really, hadn't I?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selmo

Gandalf always seemed to be careful about claiming any sort of authority over anyone. For example, when he confronted Wormtongue he wasn't very nice to him but he didn't hand out any punishment; that authority belonged to King Theoden.

The only time we see Gandalf punish anyone directly is the occasion when he dismissed Saruman from the Order of Wizards, broke his staff and made him crawl away, humilliated. As Gandalf the White, he had the authority to do that. He had no authority over anyone else.

Very good point! Plus as you point out, Gandalf's level of Authority changes as the story moves on, but it never includes belting Hobbits! I don't think the Valar would have looked kindly on him doing that either. He's only supposed to advise, not to force.

Mithalwen · 11-25-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Hey, children are people too, you know!

Not all of them... there are quite a lot of orclings alas

Selmo · 11-25-2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

What Authority would Gandalf have to do such a thing?

Gandalf always seemed to be careful about claiming any sort of authority over anyone. For example, when he confronted Wormtongue he wasn't very nice to him but he didn't hand out any punishment; that authority belonged to King Theoden.

The only time we see Gandalf punish anyone directly is the occasion when he dismissed Saruman from the Order of Wizards, broke his staff and made him crawl away, humilliated. As Gandalf the White, he had the authority to do that. He had no authority over anyone else.

.

11-22-2008, 04:52 PM	#1
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	No. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

11-22-2008, 06:05 PM	#2
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	that said... I actually liked the original title to this thread, as when I first read it, I thought that it asked if Gandalf would ever eat hobbits, which I thought had some support, as Gandalf had no problem egging on Bert, Tom and Bill with cannibal culinary advice. I also thought the thread title could be mischievously misinterpretted to mean that Gandalf could beat them in basketball. That said, in regards to Gandalf physically disciplining the hobbits, we find no evidence in the text that he would so such a thing. He just barks a lot, unless it's orcs or other beasties, then he kills them. No cudgeling some errant orc - swoop, and off with its head. Peter Jackson and his crew, on the other hand, found ample evidence of Gandalf physically disciplining hobbits, yanking Pippin's and Merry's ears, dragging poor Sam through the window (and using the word "verge" ). He later takes to smacking royalty, finding that just as entertaining (i.e. Theoden the Possessed, and Denethor the Flaming). So, again in answer, 'No.' __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

11-25-2008, 06:36 AM	#4
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	Gandalf can be fabulously grumpy, if I was to look for his 'character failings' I'd say having a tendency to be sarcastic and a bit 'short' could be one of them. He is what my grandad would have termed ornery. Maybe this was Tolkien writing the effects of lack of nicotine to the smoker into his story? But he'd never hit a Hobbit! For one, they aren't children but people and Gandalf recognised this more than most (I dread to think what might have happened had The Shire been closer to Rohan, after the Rohirrim record with hunting the Woses ). What Authority would Gandalf have to do such a thing?! And that's laying aside his personality. I think the films have led people astray somewhat... __________________ Gordon's alive!

11-25-2008, 07:24 AM	#5
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	Hey, children are people too, you know! __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.