The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-25-2008, 08:26 AM   #1
Ibrīnišilpathānezel
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Ibrīnišilpathānezel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the Helcaraxe
Posts: 733
Ibrīnišilpathānezel is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Ibrīnišilpathānezel is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boromir88 View Post
What's really interesting is White ends up mightier in the end anyway...or does it really?
An interesting thought (as were those in the rest of the post ). But this, I think, is an intriguing indication of Tolkien's notions of humility, in particular humility vs hubris. The proud crow about their achievements; the humble do not. Frodo discounts his own part in destroying the Ring, thinking Sam the true hero. Aragorn does not follow the Numenorean tradition of putting the crown on his own head, but humbly acknowledges that many others, Gandalf in particular, were responsible for this victory. And for Gandalf, while there appears to be satisfaction in what was achieved, he never gives the impression that he feels his White triumphed over Sauron's Black. It was an end achieved by many, and he played a part in it, but he never treats it as a personal victory (not that we see, at any rate). One can just bet that the bad guys would have been quite personal in their moment of triumph, just as we see that Saruman is equally personal in his defeat, carrying grudges and bitterness to the very end. The heroes instead take defeat in a different "personal" sense; they accept that they, personally, failed. They don't push the blame for it off on others, even when others have a lot of share in that blame. Gandalf kicks himself for being foolish enough to fall into Saruman's trap; he pities Saruman for having fallen so far into evil. Saruman, conversely, blames Gandalf for his inability to achieve his goal of getting the Ring, as well as anyone who helped his adversary, so he has to go ruin the Shire just to get even with those he blames for his defeat (not failure; defeat).

Given that I'm in the middle of therapy trying to recover from the post-traumatic shock of being raised by a narcissitic alcoholic mother, I'm finding the narcissism of Tolkien's villains rather intriguing. Thank goodness it was Gandalf I decided to pick as my role model when I was a kid.
__________________
Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :)
Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill
Ibrīnišilpathānezel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:06 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.