Valar / Greek and Roman gods - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

wispeight · 11-27-2008, 03:24 PM

Abstract/concrete thought has not been used properly by this user.

I will speak plainly and be concrete from here on. I knew about the Ramayana but have not put any length of attention to it. However, I come across relavent text that appears to compare with valars. I'll paste it below.

"Many are the legends of the hero who descends along a bridge "narrow as a thread and sharp as a knife blade" to rescue the pure maiden. The noble Sir Gawain bridged the torrents under water to gain the love of a beautiful princess entrapped in the realm below. Such tales describe a passage into the womb of Mother Nature who strives to swallow up any who cannot outwit her craft. The Great Mother yawns as an abyss in consciousness and must be spanned and mastered by the piercing quest of the enlightened mind. Out of the great oblivion, the daughter of Chaos must be awakened and drawn forth into co-existence with the magus mind. Perhaps the most beautiful rendering of this noble venture is found in the Ramayana where Hanuman, the monkey king, vows to Rama to build of himself and his own kind a bridge to rescue the innocent and pure queen Sita. Hanuman speaks:

O'er the deep sea where monsters play
A bridge, O Rama, will I lay;
For sharer of my father's skill
Mine is the power and mine the will.
Command the Vanar hosts to lay
Foundations for the bridge today."

What I induce in regard to the hero descending along a path, narrow as a knife blade, to rescue the fair maiden, is the inner journey to reach the spiritual soul.
I think many written texts, palimpsests, manuscripts, which speak of great armies and great conflicts are about this inner quest.

When we have actual conflicts among nations on this physical plane, it will of course be recorded for the sake of preserving history, but to glorify or romanticize the killing of a human who is the foundation of a multi-leveled microcosm, a universe in miniature, to find honor in this, is an abomination.

Andsigil · 11-27-2008, 05:33 PM

Given the love Tolkien had for the Finnish language, I'm surprised that people have omitted the Finnish deities, as well as the heroes of the Kalevala, from their comparisons here and stuck mostly with Greek and Norse comparisons.

wispeight · 11-28-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Given the love Tolkien had for the Finnish language, I'm surprised that people have omitted the Finnish deities, as well as the heroes of the Kalevala, from their comparisons here and stuck mostly with Greek and Norse comparisons.

~~~
For my part it was my lacking, not intention. Thank you for the link.

Vairë · 12-07-2008, 11:07 AM

The title of this thread just caught my attention. No one's talked much about Yavanna (Ceres, or not?) and Aule (to my mind, the most *interesting* of the Valar, because of his creation of the dwarves; not really comparable to Vulcan, though, despite his smith-work).
It's Aule & Yavanna as a couple that interests me most now--what are the implications for that pairing? I lent out my copy of Silm so I can't check it now, but there's a chapter on the two of them. Yavanna's concern resulting in the race of the Ents, etc. Two very different worldviews with tremendous consequences for the physical world. There is some effort to work toward complementary views, but the environmental implications are left in the balance as the two prepare for the coming of the Children of Illuvatar. Depite Yavanna's love of trees, Aule declares "Nevertheless, they will have need of wood" and leaves it at that.
Comments?

11-27-2008, 03:24 PM	#1
wispeight Pile O'Bones Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: In the caboose pulled by the unseen. Posts: 23	my contrition Abstract/concrete thought has not been used properly by this user. I will speak plainly and be concrete from here on. I knew about the Ramayana but have not put any length of attention to it. However, I come across relavent text that appears to compare with valars. I'll paste it below. "Many are the legends of the hero who descends along a bridge "narrow as a thread and sharp as a knife blade" to rescue the pure maiden. The noble Sir Gawain bridged the torrents under water to gain the love of a beautiful princess entrapped in the realm below. Such tales describe a passage into the womb of Mother Nature who strives to swallow up any who cannot outwit her craft. The Great Mother yawns as an abyss in consciousness and must be spanned and mastered by the piercing quest of the enlightened mind. Out of the great oblivion, the daughter of Chaos must be awakened and drawn forth into co-existence with the magus mind. Perhaps the most beautiful rendering of this noble venture is found in the Ramayana where Hanuman, the monkey king, vows to Rama to build of himself and his own kind a bridge to rescue the innocent and pure queen Sita. Hanuman speaks: O'er the deep sea where monsters play A bridge, O Rama, will I lay; For sharer of my father's skill Mine is the power and mine the will. Command the Vanar hosts to lay Foundations for the bridge today." What I induce in regard to the hero descending along a path, narrow as a knife blade, to rescue the fair maiden, is the inner journey to reach the spiritual soul. I think many written texts, palimpsests, manuscripts, which speak of great armies and great conflicts are about this inner quest. When we have actual conflicts among nations on this physical plane, it will of course be recorded for the sake of preserving history, but to glorify or romanticize the killing of a human who is the foundation of a multi-leveled microcosm, a universe in miniature, to find honor in this, is an abomination.

11-27-2008, 05:33 PM	#2
Andsigil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin Posts: 733	Given the love Tolkien had for the Finnish language, I'm surprised that people have omitted the Finnish deities, as well as the heroes of the Kalevala, from their comparisons here and stuck mostly with Greek and Norse comparisons. __________________ Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness.

12-07-2008, 11:07 AM	#4
Vairë Newly Deceased Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mar Vanwa Tyaliéva, Kortirion, Tol Eressëa Posts: 4	Aule & Yavanna The title of this thread just caught my attention. No one's talked much about Yavanna (Ceres, or not?) and Aule (to my mind, the most interesting of the Valar, because of his creation of the dwarves; not really comparable to Vulcan, though, despite his smith-work). It's Aule & Yavanna as a couple that interests me most now--what are the implications for that pairing? I lent out my copy of Silm so I can't check it now, but there's a chapter on the two of them. Yavanna's concern resulting in the race of the Ents, etc. Two very different worldviews with tremendous consequences for the physical world. There is some effort to work toward complementary views, but the environmental implications are left in the balance as the two prepare for the coming of the Children of Illuvatar. Depite Yavanna's love of trees, Aule declares "Nevertheless, they will have need of wood" and leaves it at that. Comments?