The Middle Earth Popularity Cup - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nogrod · 12-09-2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

...because Aragorn already knew how to be a hero and Sam had pick it up as he went along.

I'd disagree slightly on this matter. For isn't it one of the central themes with Aragorn that he has to learn to accept his inheritance and to claim the kingship with not only his deeds but with his identity, that he has to learn himself to become what he is? And it doesn't go that easily - just like it's not easy for Sam to take the decisions and hold the fate in his hands in Mordor? So aren't these two as well so alike on some things?

I'd like to abstain from voting with this one as neither of them are my absolute favourites but I tend to like them both in different ways.

If I'd be on for a night of drinking beer and merriment I'd choose Sam as my company but if I'd wish to discuss the grand issues of this world with a jug of wine I'd choose Aragorn...

Darn hard one.

++ Aragorn

It could have gone the other way as well...

mormegil · 12-09-2008, 04:07 PM

Aragorn doesn't shower, he really doesn't do much. The crown is handed to him through no real effort of his own. Simply put, by having such a company selected for him he was made 'great'.

Sam on the other hand is the best. He is noble, brave and courageous.

++Sam

Seriously, we cannot let Same lose.

Lalwendë · 12-09-2008, 04:22 PM

I really and honestly cannot choose here on any substantive grounds. When I was younger I'd have chosen Aragorn without a moment's thought, but as I've got older I've come to see just how important, and what a thoroughly wonderful, character Samwise is.

So I'm simply going to choose for the one who I perceive to be the underdog and go:

++Sam

Groin Redbeard · 12-09-2008, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mormegil

Aragorn doesn't shower, he really doesn't do much. The crown is handed to him through no real effort of his own. Simply put, by having such a company selected for him he was made 'great'.

Are you serious?

I can't believe what an insult you gave to Aragorn. He was one of the highlights of Gandalf's ultimate plan to bring peace back into Arda and to unite it's people. Everything about Aragorn is truly kingly. One of the truly remarkable parts of 'The Return of the King' is when Aragorn actually has to sneak into Minas Tirith to save Merry and Eowyn's lives, all because of his respect for the cities people and his humility. That is a true king!

++Aragorn

Morthoron · 12-09-2008, 05:27 PM

Aragorn had a lot more going for him than the run-of-mill fellow from Middle-earth: an incredible pedigree, protection and education from the Elves, and support from a woman (an Elvish one) who loved him. No one can doubt his bravery in battle, compassion in dealing with those lesser than him and his ability to lead men. One could say it was in his upbringing.

Sam? He was a gardner and lucky enough to learn his letters. Yet through perseverance and loyalty he managed to guide the most dangerous object in the world to the most dangerous place in the world, half-carrying his master most of the way, fighting a monstrous spider solo, and giving up the Ring out of friendship.

++Sam

Tuor in Gondolin · 12-09-2008, 07:12 PM

While it's close, aand it's tempting to go with the
Elfstone, Sam won repeeated elections whereas
Aragorn was "elected" only once and that by a hardly secret
ballot, so a vote goes to Rosie's significant other
+ + Samwise .

mormegil · 12-09-2008, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Are you serious?

I can't believe what an insult you gave to Aragorn. He was one of the highlights of Gandalf's ultimate plan to bring peace back into Arda and to unite it's people.

Exactly, all he was is a pawn to Gandalf. Aragorn was given everything and almost botched it anyway.

Sneaking in is more like a thief than a king says I.

Andsigil · 12-09-2008, 08:45 PM

++Aragorn

Because if I had to make a choice, I'd rather be Aragorn than Samwise.

skip spence · 12-10-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Sneaking in is more like a thief than a king says I.

Don't say 'sneaking'! It only reminds me of He who isn't here.

I'll make this brief as I'm about to go to work.

++Sam

He is truly a character.

Nerwen · 12-10-2008, 10:35 AM

Don't belittle Aragorn, people. He's cool, especially in the first book.

All the same I think I'll vote for the brave and loyal

++Samwise the Stouthearted.

It''s just not fair to have all the vertically-challenged characters eliminated from the contest.

skip spence · 12-10-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Because if I had to make a choice, I'd rather be Aragorn than Samwise.

Not into birds with hairy feet, eh?

This contest was very tight. Sam took the early lead but Aragorn came back with a vengeance and had the upper hand for a while. Sam the brave-hearted hung in there though and managed to get enough late votes to win and send Aragorn packing by the score of 9 to 7.

Match 8 of Round 1:
In this final match of the second round Túrin Turambar, who just managed to defeat Gimli in the first round, faces Beorn, who caused an upset by knocking out Faramir. Which one of these Orc-slayers deserve a berth in the quarter-finals?

Túrin Turambar vs. Beorn

Morthoron · 12-10-2008, 01:02 PM

Well, I really don't care one way or another for either character, really. But I suppose Beorn isn't as reprehensible as Turin, who is a walking psychological case-study for any number of syndromes and manias.

++Beorn

Groin Redbeard · 12-10-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mormegil

Exactly, all he was is a pawn to Gandalf. Aragorn was given everything and almost botched it anyway.

Then wouldn't Sam also be considered a pawn that Gandalf used? That type of logic is could be used both ways.

By the way, what do you mean Aragorn was given everything? He started with nothing, he fought for his throne and right to rule. I don't see why you have to try and downgrade some Tolkien's characters just because you don't have anything good to say about the character you voted for! Both of them are amazing characters who deserve to win, but perhaps you should remember the old adage: if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all!

Morthoron · 12-10-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

By the way, what do you mean Aragorn was given everything? He started with nothing, he fought for his throne and right to rule.

Hmmm...we seem to have people posting at opposite poles here (I guess that makes the forum bi-polar). Aragorn certainly did not start with 'nothing', he was the chieftain of the Dunedain, leader of his clan, and he was treated like a prince in exile in Imladris. That 'Oh woe is me, I am a friendless drifter' Aragorn is from the movies, not from the books. But from the opposite viewpoint, Aragorn was not handed everything, nor was he merely Gandalf's lackey. He did indeed 'earn' the right to be King.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

I don't see why you have to try and downgrade some Tolkien's characters just because you don't have anything good to say about the character you voted for! Both of them are amazing characters who deserve to win, but perhaps you should remember the old adage: if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all!

People can say whatever they like. People can despise certain characters, and they can love other characters. We may not agree -- so what?

Groin Redbeard · 12-10-2008, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Hmmm...we seem to have people posting at opposite poles here (I guess that makes the forum bi-polar). Aragorn certainly did not start with 'nothing', he was the chieftain of the Dunedain, leader of his clan, and he was treated like a prince in exile in Imladris.

The leadership of a clan of exiles in order to defend people who have forgotten you and treat you with distrust is more like a responsibility than an honor. Also, it was only right that he should be treated as royalty since Aragorn is royalty, but once again, he's earned that through his wisdom and prowess as a fighter.

As to this match between Beorn and Turin, I would have to vote for Turin. Beorn is nice and simple, but I really like The Children of Hurin and Turin's adventures. Especially how everything ends in ruin for him and his sister, not to mention his Hurin and Morwen, it is absolutely heartbreaking.

++Turin

mormegil · 12-10-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

I don't see why you have to try and downgrade some Tolkien's characters just because you don't have anything good to say about the character you voted for! Both of them are amazing characters who deserve to win, but perhaps you should remember the old adage: if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all!

Groin, I vote for who I want but I am not taking this very seriously. I'm trying to have fun and make some people laugh, generally I only make me laugh but it's still a laugh. Remember this is mirth and not necessarily a serious forum. If this was in Novice and Newcomers, for example, I'd be a bit more serious with it. I actually love Aragorn but it's fun to poke fun.

Anyway,

++Turin

Have you ever smelled wet bear?

the phantom · 12-10-2008, 06:21 PM

Beorn is a bit too much of a Tom Bombadil for me to like. Oh, he's likable on a personal level, but he doesn't fit nicely into Middle Earth given the info we have on him.

Turin though- his story is perhaps my favorite of all. And I feel he should be compensated for the terrible curse placed on him and the things that resulted. And he really was a good guy deep down. Just see his dealings with Mim, his friendship with Beleg, and his treatment of dear old Sador, and you'll see the type of guy he is when he's not being driven to the brink by unbelievably bad luck (thanks to Morgoth's curse).

++ Turin

12-09-2008, 04:07 PM	#2
mormegil Maundering Mage Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 4,651	Aragorn doesn't shower, he really doesn't do much. The crown is handed to him through no real effort of his own. Simply put, by having such a company selected for him he was made 'great'. Sam on the other hand is the best. He is noble, brave and courageous. ++Sam Seriously, we cannot let Same lose. __________________ “I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

12-09-2008, 04:22 PM	#3
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	I really and honestly cannot choose here on any substantive grounds. When I was younger I'd have chosen Aragorn without a moment's thought, but as I've got older I've come to see just how important, and what a thoroughly wonderful, character Samwise is. So I'm simply going to choose for the one who I perceive to be the underdog and go: ++Sam __________________ Gordon's alive!

12-09-2008, 05:27 PM	#5
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	Aragorn had a lot more going for him than the run-of-mill fellow from Middle-earth: an incredible pedigree, protection and education from the Elves, and support from a woman (an Elvish one) who loved him. No one can doubt his bravery in battle, compassion in dealing with those lesser than him and his ability to lead men. One could say it was in his upbringing. Sam? He was a gardner and lucky enough to learn his letters. Yet through perseverance and loyalty he managed to guide the most dangerous object in the world to the most dangerous place in the world, half-carrying his master most of the way, fighting a monstrous spider solo, and giving up the Ring out of friendship. ++Sam __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

12-09-2008, 07:12 PM	#6
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	While it's close, aand it's tempting to go with the Elfstone, Sam won repeeated elections whereas Aragorn was "elected" only once and that by a hardly secret ballot, so a vote goes to Rosie's significant other + + Samwise . __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

12-09-2008, 08:45 PM	#8
Andsigil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin Posts: 733	++Aragorn Because if I had to make a choice, I'd rather be Aragorn than Samwise. __________________ Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness.

12-10-2008, 10:35 AM	#10
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	Don't belittle Aragorn, people. He's cool, especially in the first book. All the same I think I'll vote for the brave and loyal ++Samwise the Stouthearted. It''s just not fair to have all the vertically-challenged characters eliminated from the contest. __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

12-10-2008, 01:02 PM	#12
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	Well, I really don't care one way or another for either character, really. But I suppose Beorn isn't as reprehensible as Turin, who is a walking psychological case-study for any number of syndromes and manias. ++Beorn __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

12-10-2008, 06:21 PM	#17
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Beorn is a bit too much of a Tom Bombadil for me to like. Oh, he's likable on a personal level, but he doesn't fit nicely into Middle Earth given the info we have on him. Turin though- his story is perhaps my favorite of all. And I feel he should be compensated for the terrible curse placed on him and the things that resulted. And he really was a good guy deep down. Just see his dealings with Mim, his friendship with Beleg, and his treatment of dear old Sador, and you'll see the type of guy he is when he's not being driven to the brink by unbelievably bad luck (thanks to Morgoth's curse). ++ Turin __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.