The Middle Earth Popularity Cup

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

That is the weirdest thing I have ever heard about Gandalf. That's like saying I'm a soldier because I shoot guns.

Bad analogy there Groin. Everyone knows that reading Lord of the Rings leads straight to any number of addictions (particularly pipeweed), and even worse, bouts of sanctimoniousness.

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Gandalf represents more of a prophet than a hippie (I don't know where get the idea that he's a hippie). After all it was the task of the Istari to help the peoples of Arda in the fight against Sauron, Gandalf was the only one of the Istari that stuck to the task which made him a "voice in the wilderness", "a stone doomed to rolling." I just love the way he stirs up the hearts of rulers to fight and spreads the news of what is happening. I do wish that Tolkien would have written a book purely on the travels of Gandalf!f[/B]

You said it yourself, Gandalf is the original Rolling Stoner, and he exhibits many primary traits of a hippie, as already pointed out by Lal, who perhaps fit in well with the Carnaby Street crowd at one point in time.

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Bad analogy there Groin. Everyone knows that reading Lord of the Rings leads straight to any number of addictions (particularly pipeweed), and even worse, bouts of sanctimoniousness.



You said it yourself, Gandalf is the original Rolling Stoner, and he exhibits many primary traits of a hippie, as already pointed out by Lal, who perhaps fit in well with the Carnaby Street crowd at one point in time.

I still disagree. Unlike hippies, Gandalf actually had something important to do and proved to be productive in counsel wherever he went.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

I still disagree. Unlike hippies, Gandalf actually had something important to do and proved to be productive in counsel wherever he went.

And hippies did not have something important to do and weren't productive? Pffft!

*Glares indignantly*

Actually, there are alot of things hippies and Gandalf had in common:

1) Gandalf sparred verbally with Wormtongue; hippies had words with Tricky Dick.

2) Gandalf smoked pipeweed; hippies had weed-pipes.

3) Gandalf hung around with Dwarves and Hobbits; hippies hung out with Eric Burdon of the Animals, who described himself as 'an over-fed, long-haired leaping gnome'.

4) Gandalf was long-haired, bearded and disheveled; hippies were like that too, only younger.

5) Gandalf once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves or Men or Orcs; hippies were...ummm...forgetful too.

6) Gandalf took hikes; hippies hitchhiked.

7) Gandalf burned pinecones; hippies burned draft cards.

8) Gandalf helped end the War of the Ring; hippies helped end the Vietnam war.

9) Gandalf was considered a troublemaker and disturber of the peace; hippies? ditto.

10) Gandalf was called Stormcrow by Theoden; Stormcrow? Man, like, what an awesome name for a band!

Oh and I vote for ++Samwise

[Andsigil]

Nice list. I'll have a go at fisking it.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

1) Gandalf sparred verbally with Wormtongue; hippies had words with Tricky Dick.

Wormtongue was a fifth-columnist. Gandalf sided against him.

2) Gandalf smoked pipeweed; hippies had weed-pipes.

But it would only be conjecture to say that Gandalf's pipeweed had any hallucinogenic qualities.

3) Gandalf hung around with Dwarves and Hobbits; hippies hung out with Eric Burdon of the Animals, who described himself as 'an over-fed, long-haired leaping gnome'.

But would Gandalf have spilled the wine or taken the pearl?

4) Gandalf was long-haired, bearded and disheveled; hippies were like that too, only younger.

Only in the gray days. When he went to Gandalf the White, he was quite well cleaned up.

5) Gandalf once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves or Men or Orcs; hippies were...ummm...forgetful too.

No argument there!

6) Gandalf took hikes; hippies hitchhiked.

Hiking has more character than bumming rides. As does riding Shadowfax (the Rolls Royce of horses).

7) Gandalf burned pinecones; hippies burned draft cards.

Gandalf used those pinecones as weapons. Perhaps molotov cocktails would be a better comparison?

8) Gandalf helped end the War of the Ring; hippies helped end the Vietnam war.

But Gandalf ended the War of the Ring by fighting in it and winning.

9) Gandalf was considered a troublemaker and disturber of the peace; hippies? ditto.

I would venture that his disturbing and troublemaking had a slightly more noble purpose than, say, Woodstock.

10) Gandalf was called Stormcrow by Theoden; Stormcrow? Man, like, what an awesome name for a band!

Seek and ye shall find:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7_VoGPPNXo
I'm not sure if this actually qualifies as hippie music, though. Hippies did make some decent music. I'm really not fond of this group.

Oh and I vote for ++Samwise

Good choice, although I think we're behind in this round.

By the way, positive rep inbound to you for coming up with this list.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Wormtongue was a fifth-columnist. Gandalf sided against him.

Hmmm...the term fifth columnist is appropriate, I guess, as Saruman was rather fascist (he did share the love of overblown oratory with Mussolini and Hitler).

Originally Posted by Andsigil

But it would only be conjecture to say that Gandalf's pipeweed had any hallucinogenic qualities.

But didin't Saruman tell Gandalf something to the effect that the Hobbit's weed had addled his wits? I think perhaps the Hobbits were closet hippies (the suburban kids with the long hair and Che Guevara posters driving about in their parent's Porsches), as in addition to pipeweed they were fond of 'shrooms.

Originally Posted by Andsigil

But would Gandalf have spilled the wine or taken the pearl?

Not sure about that, but in the same song Burdon refers to the 'Hall of the Mountain King'. Very suspect if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Only in the gray days. When he went to Gandalf the White, he was quite well cleaned up.

Well, hippies also bundled up their ideals, subversiveness and patchouli oil in well-worn steamer trunks and became well-heeled stock brokers and manufacturing reps. *shrugs*

Originally Posted by Andsigil

No argument there!

Ummm...what were we talking about again?

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Hiking has more character than bumming rides. As does riding Shadowfax (the Rolls Royce of horses).

John Lennon had a Rolls Royce.

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Gandalf used those pinecones as weapons. Perhaps molotov cocktails would be a better comparison?

It was more an analogy to fighting evil, but your comparison is applicable, particularly at the '68 Democratic Convention in Chicago.

Originally Posted by Andsigil

But Gandalf ended the War of the Ring by fighting in it and winning.

Make love, not war. But the counterculture protests of the '60's did do a lot for civil rights, the anti-war movement and women's lib. They were also cool places to meet chicks.

Originally Posted by Andsigil

I would venture that his disturbing and troublemaking had a slightly more noble purpose than, say, Woodstock.

Woodstock had its elements of nobility. One just had to look under the mud.

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Seek and ye shall find:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7_VoGPPNXo
I'm not sure if this actually qualifies as hippie music, though. Hippies did make some decent music. I'm really not fond of this group.

Wow, that was dreadful! And no, that would not be what anyone was listening to during the Summer of Love (or anyone should listen to presently). That doesn't rank up there with The Beatles, The Doors or even The Mothers of Invention.

Sorry for the digression. Back to tallying the votes!

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

But didin't Saruman tell Gandalf something to the effect that the Hobbit's weed had addled his wits? I think perhaps the Hobbits were closet hippies (the suburban kids with the long hair and Che Guevara posters driving about in their parent's Porsches), as in addition to pipeweed they were fond of 'shrooms.

Well, seeing as the nicotine found in tobacco is a well known stimulant and would do anything but 'addle your wits', your guess is as good as mine as to what exactly pipe-weed might have been, but it might have been something quite interesting....

Hobbits...they are like Swampy and his mates - living in holes and going bonkers for shrooms and pipeweed....

[Aganzir]

++Túrin

Right now I feel more like liking Túrin than Sam.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Bad analogy there Groin. Everyone knows that reading Lord of the Rings leads straight to any number of addictions (particularly pipeweed), and even worse, bouts of sanctimoniousness.

Originally Posted by Morthoron

You said it yourself, Gandalf is the original Rolling Stoner, and he exhibits many primary traits of a hippie, as already pointed out by Lal, who perhaps fit in well with the Carnaby Street crowd at one point in time.

You infuriate me with your lack of seriousness in the matter, and making a mockery of the subject in the process!

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

You infuriate me with your lack of seriousness in the matter, and making a mockery of the subject in the process!

Groin, please read the header of this forum. It is 'Middle-earth Mirth'. Mirth, by definition, indicates amusement, humor and wit. Please be indignant on a forum where such priggishness is more acceptable.

Oh, and Lord of the Rings is a book of fiction, not a holy text of biblical proportions. Take a deep breath, and...smoke some pipeweed for relaxation's sake.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Groin, please read the header of this forum. It is 'Middle-earth Mirth'. Mirth, by definition, indicates amusement, humor and wit. Please be indignant on a forum where such priggishness is more acceptable.

Call it the dwarf in me, but I dislike the way you raise serious subjects and than dismiss them in a shroud of annoying silliness like some elf.

Oh, and Lord of the Rings is a book of fiction, not a holy text of biblical proportions. Take a deep breath, and...smoke some pipeweed for relaxation's sake.

A holy book it might not be, but it is certainly not a hippie book. As for the pipeweed smoking I'll leave that up to for you to do.


++Boromir

He may not be as loyal or ethical as Beleg was, but he was dutiful and took pride in his deeds.

[Strongbow]

++Beleg

[mormegil]

++Beleg

Boromir is so boorish and banal.

[Andsigil]

++Boromir

I think he was as ethical as anyone. His problem was that he was like the vast majority of us. It takes a Gandalf, a Galadriel, or a Faramir to resist the call of The Ring. Had the overwhelming majority of anyone in ME been in Boromir's shoes, they'd have taken it, as well.

I'm one who thoroughly believes that mercy to the wolf is cruelty to the sheep. But I'd still accept the Temporary Insanity defense from Boromir's lawyer if he were on trial.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

++ Beleg

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Call it the dwarf in me, but I dislike the way you raise serious subjects and than dismiss them in a shroud of annoying silliness like some elf.

Nonsense! I haven't shown the slightest bit of seriousness in this whole thread! The nerve that I should be subject to such insinuation!

But as this is the holiday season, I shall ignore your prattle. In the immortal words of Foghorn Leghorn, "I come to bury the hatchet, but not in your pointed head."

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Hm. Both characters are not among my favorites, and I don't want to wear out the coin, so let's see if I can come up with another means of choosing.

Beleg: guy who sticks by a friend, gets mistaken for an orc by said friend and is killed; said friend repents only because he drinks Ulmo-blessed water and regains his grief-stricken insanity.

Boromir: guy who tries to stick it to a friend to grab the Ring, repents, and gets killed by orcs while defending relatively defenseless hobbits.

Tough call.

*flip*

++Beleg

[skip spence]

As much as I love the story of Túrin and Beleg I'm going with ++Boromir who is a more interesting character than his opponent.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Nonsense! I haven't shown the slightest bit of seriousness in this whole thread!

Oh, but you should, Morth. You've been too dazzled by the bright lights to notice the seedy underbelly of the so-called Middle Earth Popularity Cup. If ever a cup could be said to possess an underbelly, this cup does. Don't you think it a little strange when a rank outsider like the so-called Beleg keeps beating the favourites? What do you know of the money that's changed hands... the bribery and intimidation... the organised crime syndicates behind bookmakers like the so-called Bêthberry? Not to mention the fact that it's run by notorious underworld kingpin skip "Shady" spence?

It's rotten, I tell you! Rotten to the core!

[Nogrod]

Darn it!

That's just what I feared! When the going gets tough the LotR-idols will prevail...

Well one must try and hope for some kind of a miracle; in Middle-Earth things have been accomplished in the last moments before as well!

++ Beleg

So a final between Gandalf and Boromir... That's just an anticlimax! Like this was some movie-fansite! ... Oh, sorry... it would have been Legolas and Frodo then...

Maybe I'll just have to forgive you your conventionality.

[skip spence]

Alas, Beleg has finally run out of miracles and is eliminated by the score of 8 votes to 6.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

It's rotten, I tell you! Rotten to the core!

Hey now, that's a half-truth at best.

Don't you think it a little strange when a rank outsider like the so-called Beleg keeps beating the favourites?

The fact that Beleg is now out proves conclusively that you are wrong.

What do you know of the money that's changed hands... the bribery and intimidation... the organised crime syndicates behind bookmakers like the so-called Bêthberry? Not to mention the fact that it's run by notorious underworld kingpin skip "Shady" spence?

My unseemly wealth and affilation to organized crime has little or nothing to do with the results of the of the past month or the fair and generous odds provided by Betberry. Since your post contains libelous statements without any factual support, I advice you to delete it immidiately for everyone's best benefit (not least your own).

Semifinal 2:
Gandalf vs. Túrin