Winged Beasts, a squandered resource?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

This:

means they are probably not reptilian creatures. I can't think of any reptiles which thrive on cold and moonlight. Even British snakes need to bask, and they hibernate in winter, as do Toads and Frogs, so I doubt it's Amphibian either.

If it's a mammal then it's one which doesn't need to be nursed on milk, or else has been weaned early. Being able to fly doesn't rule out it being a mammal of course.

Well, Tolkien was never one for the proper placement of biospheres or ecosystems. If the 'Withered Heath' can best be described as the hatchery or nursery of dragons, then its northern proximity indicates that in Middle-earth reptiles of the draconis order were adaptable to rather frigid climes, or at least wild fluctuations of temperature. With their innate intelligence, they could have been precursors to mammals!

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Also, they were "lingering in forgotten mountains". Does that literally mean 'in' the mountain, as in a cave? Or does the use of 'eyrie' exclude that?

I think it's yet another example of archaic Tolkienisms. Tolkien says 'in' when he means 'on' or 'atop', and uses 'under' when he means 'in' or 'below'. So lingering 'in' forgotten mountains means existing 'atop' or 'along' the mountain. Or at least, that's my understanding, without getting in too deep.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I think it's yet another example of archaic Tolkienisms. Tolkien says 'in' when he means 'on' or 'atop', and uses 'under' when he means 'in' or 'below'.

I took it be "in" as in "we went hiking in the mountains". In fact it never occurred to me that there was a another way of reading it.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I took it be "in" as in "we went hiking in the mountains". In fact it never occurred to me that there was a another way of reading it.

Yes, 'in' as 'on', like hiking 'in' or 'among' or 'along' the mountains, not necessarily 'within' or 'under'. Bah! I'm getting a prepositional headache.

[Alfirin]

also since "mountains" is plural, In could me within the area encopassed by the mountains that is within the gerographic are in which the mountains are found. If "mountain" was singular, then "in" would mean "inside the mountain" but since it is plural, "in also covers on. It like saying "wildcats are found in the Scottish Highlands" doesnt literally mean that they live underground (though I think they do, in fact live in burrowed dens) it just means that if you are looking for Scottish wildcats, you should go to the Highlands area to find them. Thats enough of being pedantic.

On the warm blooded issue, as I said before somthing as big as a fell beast would pretty much have to be homeothermic which while not a trait of modern reptiles supposedly was found in some dinosaurs which seems to be closer to what fell best were anyway (dinosaur as far as I know are not tecnically cosidered to be reptiles, reptiles thier ancestral line had already diverged before dinosaurs ever evolved.) Dragons fit the dinosaurian form too so they are also likey homeothermic, especially the fire brething types (it would be a fine thin to have a dragon who could breathe fire and not be able to use this internal fire to keep its body temperature up (Tolkein, as I reacll says sepcifcally that fire brething dragons make thier fire inside of them not outside, so we ca leave aside all of the methane/hydrogen bioelectric spark ignition scenrios, which would get around this)
A bigger point in favor of homethermy; according to most evelutionary theories. homeothermic metabloison is more or less a neccessary prerequesite for the sucessful development of certain evoultionary traits, they just take up too much metabolic energy for poikilotherms. What are the two structures that lead this list? Wings and large brains, the possesion of which, given the fact that Dragons are sentient, intellegent creatures, capable of speech, seems more or less a given. Fell beasts are probably fairy large brained too given the fact that they are trainable as mounts (which requires a fairly complex set of commands to be learned.)

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Yes, 'in' as 'on', like hiking 'in' or 'among' or 'along' the mountains, not necessarily 'within' or 'under'. Bah! I'm getting a prepositional headache.

I suppose it's rather like the way a lot of Yorkshire folk will say "I live on..." rather than "I live in..." when saying which part of a town they live in.

[Gordis]

I was trying to find some data on the wing structure of Tolkien dragons, found nothing convincing in "the Hobbit", then tried the web and found this article: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Dragons

The author states: "Tolkien designed his own taxonomic system for dragons." I am curious, what is the source? Does anyone know?

[Nerwen]

From internal evidence, it looks as if the writer just meant winged vs wingless, and cold-drakes vs firedrakes... and was just using the word "taxomonic" to show off.

[Alfirin]

also interestingly it looks like based on his descriptions of named dragons that, if Scatha indeed did have only two legs (I don't remember Tolkein saying this explicity, but it is certainly possible that I simply missed that) he would tecnically match up to the dragon subspecies referred to as a Lindworm or possibly a Taezelwurm, at least under some definitions (both terms have been used for so many types over the centuries, rightly or wrongly that a precise defintion is hard to pin down) Maybe this should be obvios by the fact that Scatha is referred to as a "long worm" (my early scandanavian isn't good so I have no idea if "lind" can mean "long" (my translator transaltes it as "gentle".) but it was new to me.