Elves and death

[Gordis]

They all had been resurrected, no doubt, but maybe only Glorfindel expressed a wish to return to ME?

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Gordis

They all had been resurrected, no doubt, but maybe only Glorfindel expressed a wish to return to ME?

That's literally so simple that I never thought of it. It makes perfect sense.

[Beregond]

Is that from The Peoples of Middle Earth, Galin? I don't have the book and I cant find the pertinent text online, but I was wondering what Tolkien wrote about Glorfindel there.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Beregond

Is that from The Peoples of Middle Earth, Galin? I don't have the book and I cant find the pertinent text online, but I was wondering what Tolkien wrote about Glorfindel there.

Yes, my list is based on statements from Glorfindel Essay II in The Peoples of Middle-Earth (Last Writings). Sorry, I should have noted that.

[Beregond]

Originally Posted by Galin

Yes, my list is based on statements from Glorfindel Essay II in The Peoples of Middle-Earth (Last Writings). Sorry, I should have noted that.

No, that's fine. Oddly enough I was in the process of asking if anyone had read that section of The Peoples of Middle-Earth , when you up and posted it.

[Galin]

To add, Glorfindel I (GI) might contain an easier reason: that Glorfindel was a companion to Gandalf on his voyage to Middle-earth in the Third Age, possibly as a guard or assistant in addition to being a friend and follower (considering the first words of the second page anyway, noting that the first page is missing).

'... as guards or assistants. An Elf who had once known Middle-earth and had fought in the long wars against Melkor would be an eminently suitable companion for Gandalf. We could then reasonably suppose that Glorfindel (possibly as one of a small party, more probably as a sole companion) landed with Gandalf-Olórin about Third Age 1000.'

[skipping to end of GI]

'(...) It is indeed probable that he had in Valinor already become a friend and follower of Olórin, Even in the brief glimpses of him given in The Lord of the Rings he appears as specially concerned with Gandalf, and was one (the most powerful it would seem) of those sent out from Rivendell when the disquieting news reached Elrond that Gandalf had never reappeared to guide or protect the Ring-bearer.'

Tolkien seems to reject this in Glorfindel II, but there he appears to be considering it an improbable exception that Glorfindel be sent to Middle-earth after the Blessed Realm was removed from the Circles of the World. OK, but as the focus of the trip was really Gandalf and the mission of the Istari anyway, I don't think it necessarily would make Glorfindel '... of greater power and importance than seems fitting' (GII) to have him accompany the Wizard.

Hmmm. I kind of like this explanation from GI myself.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

It's interesting, and never expanded on, that the Elves of Valinor (or at least Eressea) frequently visited Numenor before the place went bad- but apparently no farther East. T did note in the margin of Glorfindel that perhaps G returned to M-E on a Numenorean ship.

That Osgiliates into another subject- it seems that Exiles who physically sailed back into the West were confined to Eressea, but this isn't the case with re-embodied Nodor, who after Mandos live in Valinor proper (definitely stated in the cases of Finrod and Glorfindel). I suppose this is because ex-cons are considered 'purged;' it may also be that living returnees have enough of a taste for the Mortal Lands left that timeless Aman would be unpleasant for them.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

I understand what you're saying, but I still see Glorfindel as "average" among the great heroes of the elves. I mean, Gil-Galad defeated Sauron with Ecthelion's help and sacrificed himself in the process. Fingolfin died fighting the Big Kahuna himself, Morgoth. Couldn't one argue that, instead of resurrecting Glorfindel to aid Elrond, why not instead resurrect Gil-Galad or Fingolfin and to rule as High King of the Noldor again?

Originally Posted by Gordis

They all had been resurrected, no doubt, but maybe only Glorfindel expressed a wish to return to ME?

Yes, most likely that, (and Glorfindel was of course not that "average" anyway, but I guess even that was a bit of an exaggeration in your post, Andsigil) and mainly, these "big bosses" often fulfilled their role and it would be kinda weird, that I think is evident even from the point of view of every reader, to suddenly bring them back. Now you will have a guy who will suddenly come and take the "throne" of Noldor again for himself - wouldn't that be a bit queer? I won't mind if it was for example like with Gandalf, immediately after they died, why not, but to bring back some Fingolfin in the middle of the Third Age sounds pretty bad. Aside from the fact that the Elves were leaving the M-E, and their realms were diminishing (I think a good formulation would be "were supposed to diminish, not to grow", if I can phrase it like that).

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Yes, most likely that, (and Glorfindel was of course not that "average" anyway, but I guess even that was a bit of an exaggeration in your post, Andsigil)

I meant average among the Elven heroes, meaning "average" if included in a list of, say, Earendil, Gil-Galad, Fingolfin, Maedhros, Feanor, etc.

No, I didn't mean just, plain average. The guy slew a Balrog!

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

but to bring back some Fingolfin in the middle of the Third Age sounds pretty bad. Aside from the fact that the Elves were leaving the M-E, and their realms were diminishing (I think a good formulation would be "were supposed to diminish, not to grow", if I can phrase it like that).

Quite. And I feel it would have been much better if Tolkien left Glorfy in Valinor as well.

In the Third Age ME Glorfindel becomes a Mary-Sue, complete with blond hair, shining inner light, super-powers (scarier than a Maia, isn't he?), jingle-bells on his bridle and even an animal familiar (Asfaloth). I always hated the guy - and was so very glad he was not included into the Fellowship. With characters of such power the story simply becomes uninteresting.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Thanks for a stimulating set of responses - I'm glad I started this !

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Gordis

They all had been resurrected, no doubt, but maybe only Glorfindel expressed a wish to return to ME?

Ooh! Afterthought!

On this point, there seems to be a lot of truth to it, if only when one considers that the only other returning Elves to Middle-earth had been the exiled Noldor (who returned out of a grudge)--and also because the general trend of Elves who never left Middle-earth was to get on ships and sail back to Valinor. After having tried both, most Noldor seem to have concluded that Valinor held the better life.