Geography of Middle Earth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tuor in Gondolin · 01-13-2009, 02:46 PM

Karen Fonstad's The Atlas of Middle-Earth has some
interesting conjectures. About Cuivienen , she has a
rather giant Inland Sea Of Helcar extending from about
where 2nd, 3rd age Mordor is far to the east with Cuivienen on
the eastern shore, in distance about 2x again the distance from
the western edge of Beleriand to the Ered Luin.

And in the Encyclopedia of Arda:

Quote:

This map of Cuiviénen is adapted from Map IV from The Shaping of Middle-earth (volume 4 of The History of Middle-earth). It is unclear how much of the detail of that early map Tolkien meant to stand, but it is the only source we have that shows Cuiviénen in any detail. Certain elements of the map shown here have been modified to bring it into line with the published Silmarillion - see Note 1 for details.
Called the Water of Awakening, the land on the shores of the inland sea of Helcar where the first Elves awoke during the Years of the Trees; it lay far in the east of Middle-earth.

The map referred to above didn't come out (sorry).

Beregond · 01-13-2009, 08:12 PM

Fonstad's The Atlas of Middle Earth is indeed an excellent book! I highly recommend it! Even if some maps are based on conjecture, they are well drawn and explained. The maps of the entire earth are particularly eye-opening the first time you see them! Since you're asking this question, Oroaranion, I think you'd like the book - just wanted to throw that in after you mentioned it, Tuor.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 01-14-2009, 04:35 AM

Yep, I can only second (third), and therefore seal the recommendation of Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas. Some things, like the position of Cuiviénen, are based on guessing from large part (because there is not much better evidence), however, they are counting with all probability and with all possible evidence brought by Tolkien, thus, quite acceptable and making sense. And indeed, it looks like Cuiviénen was on the eastern shore of this inland sea of Helcar; remnants of this sea are both lake Rhun and Núrnen in the Third Age (Rhun possibly being very close to the original eastern shore of Helcar, thus, very close to the place of the Elves' awakening).

01-13-2009, 08:12 PM	#2
Beregond Playful Ghoul Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,251	Fonstad's The Atlas of Middle Earth is indeed an excellent book! I highly recommend it! Even if some maps are based on conjecture, they are well drawn and explained. The maps of the entire earth are particularly eye-opening the first time you see them! Since you're asking this question, Oroaranion, I think you'd like the book - just wanted to throw that in after you mentioned it, Tuor. __________________ "Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green."

01-14-2009, 04:35 AM	#3
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Yep, I can only second (third), and therefore seal the recommendation of Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas. Some things, like the position of Cuiviénen, are based on guessing from large part (because there is not much better evidence), however, they are counting with all probability and with all possible evidence brought by Tolkien, thus, quite acceptable and making sense. And indeed, it looks like Cuiviénen was on the eastern shore of this inland sea of Helcar; remnants of this sea are both lake Rhun and Núrnen in the Third Age (Rhun possibly being very close to the original eastern shore of Helcar, thus, very close to the place of the Elves' awakening). __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories