Rohan and Lorien

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Aragorn said that about the Emyn Muil, not the Wold

[BGreg]

Aragorn said that about the Emyn Muil, not the Wold

Yes, but later he was surprised to see no people or animals in Eastemnet; though he said they usually live far south. Here they used to have herds and paddocks, and shepards tended for them.

Sorry I don't have the exact quote, I just wanted to show that there weren't many people here even during the peacetime. Just a few shepards with their herds. Sleeping under tents. And the elves didn't exactly leave the forest so often. So I don't think Rohirrim ever saw a sign of the Galadhrim.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron

Aragorn said that about the Emyn Muil, not the Wold

Yes, but I alluded to that in my original comment. My point was that if there were settlements of the Rohirrim as near as the Wold, the possibility of them being responsible for the dead Orcs would not have been so quickly discounted by Aragorn.

As nightshade was closing about them, Aragorn halted. Only twice in the day's march had they rested for a brief while, and twelve leagues now lay between them and the eastern wall where they had stood at dawn.

TT The riders of Rohan

A league is generally considered to be about 3 miles, so by then they were approximately 36 miles from the brink of the Emyn Muil. That was daybreak of the day after they left Parth Galen.
On the third day of the pursuit, there is this quote:

Often Aragorn wondered that they saw no sign of beast or man. The dwellings of the Rohirrim were for the most part many leagues away to the South, under the wooded eaves of the White Mountains, now hidden in mist and cloud, yet the Horse-lords had formerly kept many herds and studs in the Eastemnet, this easterly region of their realm.

TT The Riders of Rohan

That's probably the quote you had in mind, BGreg. I believe you are correct.
Even there, far south of the Wold, the Rohirrim had no permanent settlements. Though the river Limlight was the northen boundary of Rohan, they don't appear to have ever had permanent residences in the Wold.

For the most part their settled dwellings were about the feet of the White Mountains and and in the glens and valleys of the south.

UT The Battles of the Fords of Isen

Again, no reference to any of the Rohirrim residing in the Wold.

[Rumil]

Hi all,

It does seem strange and uinlikely overall that there was no contact.

The reasons I think include the extreme insularity of the elves and the uneasy superstitousness of the Rohirrim, as has been said.

Also there is an aspect of differing ecological niche, the Rohirrim are set up for life on plains, horse-riding herdsmen. They are not really interested in the woods as there's no grazing, and may even be frightened of the woods as unfamiliar terrain. In many aspects they appear half-nomadic, not making permanent settlements except their strongholds at the foot of the White mountains. They used tents on the trip to Minas Tirith, like the Mongols and yurts perhaps? Therefore the North Western areas appear to have no permanent settlements, but are occasionally visited by the nomadic herdsmen and their herds.

Conversely the elves don't appear to have much in the way of horses and due to the 'embalming' nature that has been well discussed, are not much interested in venturing away from their forest.

Occasionally a curious Rohir would venure into Lothlorien, but either turned back or never re-appeared (mentioned somewhere in LoTR). How would this pan out? I think the lonely traveller (already rather jumpy due to the legends) would possibly be diverted out of Lothlorien by the landscape, like Frodo and co. in the Old Forest. Maybe they had an arrow strike the tree in front of them, I don't think the Elven wardens would kill them, but certainly frighten them off. Another possibility is the 'falling asleep trick' that the Mirkwood elves pulled on Bilbo et al. If, despite these, the Rohir persisted then the elves would seem to have accepted them, but Lothlorien is not a place for mortals, time is perceived differently etc. The Rohir might not leave at all, or only after many years, much like the legends of those that visit the faerie realms.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

And Rohanites, for all their undoubted virtues, were not noted
for farsighted diplomacy, witness their shortsighted
treatment of the Dunlanders (whose territory they
did occupy- reminiscent of American Indian and
aboiriginal history), especially since the people of
Dunland were alienated but were secure in the
borders near Rohan (somewhat the way Afghans have
reacted to repeated foreign incursions). Also the unwise,
if granted generally justified, treatment of Freca by Helm-which
contributed to Rohan's occupation.

Btw, in PJ's flawed TTT movie, I liked the bit of having Helm
Hammerhand's statue in the courtyard without specific
allusiion (rather like the trolls in the much better FOTR).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Hi all,
Occasionally a curious Rohir would venure into Lothlorien, but either turned back or never re-appeared (mentioned somewhere in LoTR). How would this pan out? I think the lonely traveller (already rather jumpy due to the legends) would possibly be diverted out of Lothlorien by the landscape, like Frodo and co. in the Old Forest. Maybe they had an arrow strike the tree in front of them, I don't think the Elven wardens would kill them, but certainly frighten them off. Another possibility is the 'falling asleep trick' that the Mirkwood elves pulled on Bilbo et al. If, despite these, the Rohir persisted then the elves would seem to have accepted them, but Lothlorien is not a place for mortals, time is perceived differently etc. The Rohir might not leave at all, or only after many years, much like the legends of those that visit the faerie realms.

I just don't see many credible reasons for one of the Rohirrim to be in that area at all. They were said to "regard the eaves of Fangorn and the frowning walls of Isengard with dread", and they had no permanent habitations there; the only likely motivation for their presence in the Wold would be a military one, perhaps a mounted patrol here and there leading up to the War. And if Éomer's reaction to Aragorn's words was indicative of the ideas the Rohirrim had of Lórien, any of the soldiers who found themselves near it would have done all they could to avoid it.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I just don't see many credible reasons for one of the Rohirrim to be in that area at all. They were said to "regard the eaves of Fangorn and the frowning walls of Isengard with dread", and they had no permanent habitations there; the only likely motivation for their presence in the Wold would be a military one, perhaps a mounted patrol here and there leading up to the War. And if Éomer's reaction to Aragorn's words was indicative of the ideas the Rohirrim had of Lórien, any of the soldiers who found themselves near it would have done all they could to avoid it.

Inzil is, of course, correct. You must take the superstitious nature of the Rohirrim in context with the dark world of 3rd Age Middle-earth, where there was more than just 'sprites and bogies' overturning milk buckets. Orcs were harrying Rohan's borders and there were dragons lurking in the history of the Eotheod. The Rohirrim looked on Lorien with dread, and rightly so. There was indeed a supernatural and palpable otherworldy presence lurking in the Golden Wood.

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Widfara, who discerned the change of wind direction with a "sea-tang" just prior to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, lived in the Wold.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by The Mouth of Sauron

Widfara, who discerned the change of wind direction with a "sea-tang" just prior to the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, lived in the Wold.

True indeed. Even so, other evidence would suggest he was in the minority by living so far north. Even if there was a small settlement in the Wold, the northern boundary of Rohan was the river Limlight. A cursory glance at the maps supplied with LOTR shows Lórien many miles to the north of that. What reason would any of the Rohirrim have for crossing that river and coming, even by accident, to Lórien? By the same token, is there any evidence the Lórien Elves ever wandered far enough out of the forest to have come into contact with the Men of Rohan?
All references I've seen point to the idea that the Rohirrim had almost no knowledge of Lórien or Galadriel, beyond far off myths and legends from who knows how many centuries back.