Hardly an American 'Stand' in... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gwathagor · 01-19-2009, 10:51 AM

Holy cow that's weird.

Inziladun · 01-19-2009, 11:32 AM

Having read The Stand, both the uncut and original (which I prefer) versions, the parallels are certainly readily apparent. JRRT's influence can be seen in other SK books as well, most notably in the Dark Tower series. I believe in the first volume of Tower, The Gunslinger, King makes another comment in the forward that he had wanted to write a Tolkienesque fantasy, but gave it a bit of a western setting to set it apart. He said something along the lines of the world already having all the elves, hobbits, and trolls it needed.

Morthoron · 01-19-2009, 12:00 PM

It's no surprise Stephen King has had to look elsewhere for inspiration, considering he was for a long time a novel factory -- a book-of-the-month club in and of himself. Save for a few of his novels (The Shining, Misery, The Dead Zone, and 'Salem's Lot), I'm not much of a fan. To me, the only thing reminiscent of Tolkien in 'The Stand' is that it is long; however, Tolkien's work is long, but not interminable like King's.

Bêthberry · 01-19-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inziladun

King makes another comment in the forward that he had wanted to write a Tolkienesque fantasy, but gave it a bit of a western setting to set it apart. He said something along the lines of the world already having all the elves, hobbits, and trolls it needed.

What? He couldn't imagine dwarves riding horses and hobbits wearing chaps? I can just see the Fellowship sitting around the campfire, drinking coffee and eating beans. Oh, wait, that was another western.

Now I'm going away to practice delivering some of Frodo's lines in a John Wayne drawl. Or some of John Wayne's lines with a big-eyed hurt look.

Morthoron · 01-19-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Now I'm going away to practice delivering some of Frodo's lines in a John Wayne drawl. Or some of John Wayne's lines with a big-eyed hurt look.

I'd love to hear the late Walter Brennan doing the Gaffer in his old, rheumy western drawl: "Eh-heh-heh, hey dude, I don't go in fer wearin' iron-mongery, whether it wears well or no, consarnit."

Ibrîniðilpathânezel · 01-19-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

What? He couldn't imagine dwarves riding horses and hobbits wearing chaps?

As I recall, an artist who did the covers for one of the early editions of LotR (the Dutch edition) did depict Aragorn in a cowboy hat. I saw it once upon a time, but I can't find the image on the web anymore. Too bad. It was amusing.

I was actually quite amazed to hear that King considered TS his "American version" of LotR. To me, it felt more like his take on a Michael Crichton novel (The Andromeda Strain, perhaps). Or maybe Richard Adams' Plague Dogs.

alatar · 01-20-2009, 10:55 AM

King may have been trying to create a Gollum-like character when he penned 'The Trashcan Man.' This semi-sympathetic character has many traits of Smeagol:

is persistent beyond human ability,

is single-minded though very clever,

is disfigured,

wants to serve the Dark Man in order to be a part of something

gets betrayed

with some deus ex machina, ends up toppling the evil of the era

should have been named 'Bumpty-bumpty-bump' much for the same reason Smeagol is named Gollum

Some of the characters on the bad side are really mean sick sociopaths that you can't help but root against. Not Trash, however. He burns down a few cities by igniting large oil containers, but he never actually tries to hurt anyone (though surely some do get hurt). He has a Ring-like obsession with fire, and that's why he burns. The Dark Man promises to allow him to burn the world, and so Trash signs on..."My life for you!"

Reading about Trash's life, you realize that he's one messed up person, but it seems that he never had a choice. His father - insane - was shot by the sheriff who then marries his mother. The locals torment him endlessly. Trash gets sent off to a treatment center that uses electrical shocks to rehabilitate him. He eventually makes it back home and, not being able to control his desire for fire, ends up in jail, where he learns a little information that helps him later - like about morphine and antibiotics, which comes in helpful when he scalds his arm.

Most of his fires are a desire for vengeance, like the town he burns down where his dad-shooting stepfather lived. He also burned down a church, as he believes that God never responded to his prayers.

In regards to the book, I noticed a few other comparisons with the English LotR. One is that the American stand in is way too gritty. When you read LotR, you imagine (maybe) what may be going on in the pits of Mordor, but in The Stand, you get to read about the evils that men do - it's not a book for children or younger adults. The grit takes the fantasy part away. That and the mixing of Christian mythology and some history, which, when you start thinking about it, doesn't make much sense. Maybe that's the trouble with trying to write a LotR in the Primary World.

Oh, and one more thing: I remember some 'discussion' regarding Gimli sprinting across Rohan, and the problems with the same. Well, The Stand has that controversy as well, as the Trashcan Man, wanting to pass as quickly as possible through the state of Nebraska (the home of Mother Abigail), pedals a bicycle 400 miles in three days!

William Cloud Hicklin · 01-20-2009, 11:08 AM

A timely thread, given that al-Qaeda seems to have been playing with (and released) bubonic plague in North Africa.

alatar · 01-20-2009, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

A timely thread, given that al-Qaeda seems to have been playing with (and released) bubonic plague in North Africa.

I heard about that as well, and here's a link. To me, I'm not sure what's most frightening...actual plague/pandemic, the fear (and overreaction) of the same or that Stephen King will be heralded as a visionary.

Lalwendë · 01-20-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

A timely thread, given that al-Qaeda seems to have been playing with (and released) bubonic plague in North Africa.

Aren't they all dead though? As The Sun gleefully reported the other day....

This sounds like Terry Nation's Survivors, which has recently been revived by BBC1 though I got fed up with it after a couple of episodes. I like dystopian fiction but apocalyptic fiction I find quite depressing - The Road probably gives the most realistic account of what would happen, which isn't a very cheery thought

01-19-2009, 10:51 AM	#1
Gwathagor Shade with a Blade Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: A Rainy Night In Soho Posts: 2,512	Holy cow that's weird. __________________ Stories and songs.

01-19-2009, 11:32 AM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,039	Having read The Stand, both the uncut and original (which I prefer) versions, the parallels are certainly readily apparent. JRRT's influence can be seen in other SK books as well, most notably in the Dark Tower series. I believe in the first volume of Tower, The Gunslinger, King makes another comment in the forward that he had wanted to write a Tolkienesque fantasy, but gave it a bit of a western setting to set it apart. He said something along the lines of the world already having all the elves, hobbits, and trolls it needed. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

01-19-2009, 12:00 PM	#3
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	It's no surprise Stephen King has had to look elsewhere for inspiration, considering he was for a long time a novel factory -- a book-of-the-month club in and of himself. Save for a few of his novels (The Shining, Misery, The Dead Zone, and 'Salem's Lot), I'm not much of a fan. To me, the only thing reminiscent of Tolkien in 'The Stand' is that it is long; however, Tolkien's work is long, but not interminable like King's. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

01-20-2009, 10:55 AM	#7
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	King may have been trying to create a Gollum-like character when he penned 'The Trashcan Man.' This semi-sympathetic character has many traits of Smeagol: is persistent beyond human ability, is single-minded though very clever, is disfigured, wants to serve the Dark Man in order to be a part of something gets betrayed with some deus ex machina, ends up toppling the evil of the era should have been named 'Bumpty-bumpty-bump' much for the same reason Smeagol is named Gollum Some of the characters on the bad side are really mean sick sociopaths that you can't help but root against. Not Trash, however. He burns down a few cities by igniting large oil containers, but he never actually tries to hurt anyone (though surely some do get hurt). He has a Ring-like obsession with fire, and that's why he burns. The Dark Man promises to allow him to burn the world, and so Trash signs on..."My life for you!" Reading about Trash's life, you realize that he's one messed up person, but it seems that he never had a choice. His father - insane - was shot by the sheriff who then marries his mother. The locals torment him endlessly. Trash gets sent off to a treatment center that uses electrical shocks to rehabilitate him. He eventually makes it back home and, not being able to control his desire for fire, ends up in jail, where he learns a little information that helps him later - like about morphine and antibiotics, which comes in helpful when he scalds his arm. Most of his fires are a desire for vengeance, like the town he burns down where his dad-shooting stepfather lived. He also burned down a church, as he believes that God never responded to his prayers. In regards to the book, I noticed a few other comparisons with the English LotR. One is that the American stand in is way too gritty. When you read LotR, you imagine (maybe) what may be going on in the pits of Mordor, but in The Stand, you get to read about the evils that men do - it's not a book for children or younger adults. The grit takes the fantasy part away. That and the mixing of Christian mythology and some history, which, when you start thinking about it, doesn't make much sense. Maybe that's the trouble with trying to write a LotR in the Primary World. Oh, and one more thing: I remember some 'discussion' regarding Gimli sprinting across Rohan, and the problems with the same. Well, The Stand has that controversy as well, as the Trashcan Man, wanting to pass as quickly as possible through the state of Nebraska (the home of Mother Abigail), pedals a bicycle 400 miles in three days! __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

01-20-2009, 11:08 AM	#8
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,330	A timely thread, given that al-Qaeda seems to have been playing with (and released) bubonic plague in North Africa. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.