T-I-G LVI: Panic at the Prancing Pony

[Aganzir]

Sorry I am simply too tired to think.

Currently the only one I find even a little suspicious is Mac, just because of that Ferny comment of his. Apart from it he looks rather innocent. But I wouldn't like to vote for him now after last game.

It probably tells something about my level of tiredness that I only now realised why Lommy found Mac's "to this end" suspicious, and laughed aloud at it for a while.

Originally Posted by Legz

I just wonder if Wolf-agan would be so silly (read: careless and likely not to succeed) to do things like that, trying to convince the village or the Ringbearer to point himself out, so that they could catch him... but perhaps, probing?

Do what? Sorry I just don't get what you're talking about.

Okay my vote is probably one of the most random I have ever cast.

++Lari

Because she has been mostly bantering thus far, and she deserves a vote after last game. I don't have an opinion about her at all, really, but I rather don't give a second vote for Golly today.

Off to sleep.

edit: xed with Legz. No we should call him Berry.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay my vote is probably one of the most random I have ever cast.

++Lari

Because she has been mostly bantering thus far, and she deserves a vote after last game. I don't have an opinion about her at all, really, but I rather don't give a second vote for Golly today.

Didn't she say she had class or something earlier and wouldn't be able to be in the village?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Do what? Sorry I just don't get what you're talking about.

I am saying it in the very same sentence. Right after the comma. "...that, [i.e.] trying to convince..." I guess it may just look somehow out of context, I wrote that sentence when I was reading the thread and later I could not realise what it belonged to (if in some way to Lommy's comments?) or if it was just a thought formulated not as response to anyone's post, but just general. It is referring to this thing you have been talking about since very early, this topic of whether we should talk about the Ringbearer, and at the beginning, you seemed to suggest, or at least not dismiss completely the idea that the RB should stay put. (And, speaking of that, only very later you reevaluated. Perhaps under the general pressure, but before that, you wanted to try anyway?)

No we should call him Berry.

Berry Gandhi? Or Gandhiberry?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay. I am going to vote and then go to sleep, and really don't expect me to be here for the DL. I will be sleeping.

But, whom to vote...

Suspicious at least in some way
Fea
Mac

Less suspicious at least in some way
Lommy
Agan
Gollum

Lack of participation or such (or not enough to ponder from them, at least)
sally
lari
Shasta
Nerwen
Menel
Durelin
LG
Brinn

Innocent-seeming, or at least with not enough suspicion for them
Mira
Rikae
Nogrod
Beregond
Rune

Hmm. I am still wondering about Mac. I am only afraid it may become a bandwagon. And the funniest thing is that I said about both of my main suspects that they are Ferny. Although Mac could be a Wraith more likely. And I don't have actually that much about Fea.

I will think yet a few moments, or see whom I cross-posted with. Maybe I will get some idea.

EDIT: So I crossposted with no one. Great. Hmm... all right, in that case, I will think about it a few minutes, then vote, and then go to sleep.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay. Let it be so.

++Mac

Mainly for that Ferny thing. Or, it would be better to say only for the Ferny thing. I really do not have much suspicion against anybody, and this at least was bad enough move in my opinion anyway. Whatever.

Good night.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

In response:

Yes, Rikae, I am an Aquarius. The angle of Uranus to Jupiter and the Moon tells us, though, that I'm infused with watery influence, making me an exception to the previous statement.

++Lommy

Yes, I know you're famed for flip-flopping, Lommy dear, but that business of "No, I don't think Aganzir is a wraith, but I'm going to vote her anyway!" is just too much.

[Rikae]

Nobody finds me suspicious? Come on, people, do yuu want me to be killed at night or something?

Lists are fun.

Most guilty:
Nerwen - but I won't vote for her today, because she hasn't played in a while.
Lommy - may get my vote.
Berry - Not getting a vote because of newbie immunity.

Neutral thus far, and I like to keep them around for closer observation:

Nog
Fea
Mac
Agan

Most innocent:

Legate - He just seems sincere. I like the way he's exploring different possibilities in a very transparent-looking sort of way.

Boro - He hasn't done anything remotely suspicious.

Everybody else:
No opinion

[Nogrod]

The votes and the justifications of them so far...

Originally Posted by Greenie

A Shot in the Dark
Okay, I've decided to vote
++ Gollum
because he's the one I feel the worst about. I know that's not much said at this point, but if that's the best I can do then it is

Originally Posted by Lommy

Continuing my flip-flopping on this topic...
++Aganzir
No, I don't think she's a wraith. She might be but I don't suspect that very much, The problem is that I don't suspect anyone else of being undead either. (Q: What is a 'downsian traitor? A: Undead. Hahahahahaha.)
But I wouldn't be surprised at all if Aggy happened to have Underhill or Ferny as her last name, and that's why I'm picking her instead of someone else just as unwraithish.

Originally Posted by Gollum

*Draws name from hat* and it is...
Find out in Gollum the Great's next post!
... = the next post
++Brinn

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Okay my vote is probably one of the most random I have ever cast.
++Lari
Because she has been mostly bantering thus far, and she deserves a vote after last game. I don't have an opinion about her at all, really, but I rather don't give a second vote for Golly today.

Originally Posted by Legate

Okay. Let it be so.
++Mac
Mainly for that Ferny thing. Or, it would be better to say only for the Ferny thing. I really do not have much suspicion against anybody, and this at least was bad enough move in my opinion anyway. Whatever.

Originally Posted by Shasta

++Lommy
Yes, I know you're famed for flip-flopping, Lommy dear, but that business of "No, I don't think Aganzir is a wraith, but I'm going to vote her anyway!" is just too much.

Soo fine and dandy! All the votes so far have gone to different players!

Greenie -> Gollum
Lommy -> Aganzir
Gollum -> Brinn
Aganzir -> Lari
Legate -> Mac
Shasta -> Lommy

Bah! They can all be construed as suspicious votes! Ones of being the "easy votes", others for trying to get rid of a dangerous opponent later on...

Although somehow I must say I will add Greenie to my list of possible votes toDay as her first vote is just too easy (yeah time-troubles and sharing a computer with Lommy etc. but that is soo secure a one!)

I think I should add this one to the mix as well:

Originally Posted by Gollum in #67

I agree with whoever it was that situation looks good. For the moment. What seems to be overlooked is that hanging over the Pony like the Sword of Damacles is the danger of losing an ordo and gaining another wraith. The Ringbearer will be their prime target and we cant spend valuable time chit-chatting (like me, for instance). Once a couple of Wraiths are gone then we'll be on fairly solid ground. Also I agree with the other whoever it was that Beregond and Mirandir should be given a day or two- but not necessarily the game. Remember me in Di's game, using "newbieness" as a cloak for for my evil? I hope there isn't a repetition of that here.

I just have a terribly bad feeling about this. It just looks so calculated! From someone who actually used his newbie-status so cunningly in his first game this looks like a natural follow-up were he a wolf a second time on this one...

Originally Posted by Rikae

Nobody finds me suspicious? Come on, people

Well, I kind of do, a bit at least as I can see you have been one of the prime motors on this discussion on Bill Ferny and what he should do and what not...

[Meneltarmacil]

Aganzir is not *hic* looking suspicious to me. She *hic* thinks it more likely that the Ringearer wants to be a *hic* wraith, which is under*hic*standable. She also *hic* thinks Frodo should not be our primary *hic* concern, which makes sense. There are worse characters out *hic* there to worry about. Her vote is odd, even *hic* though she acknowledged it was random.

Mac is *hic* a major puzzle, but I need more *BUUURRRPPP* time to look over his posts.

[Nerwen]

Back. Reading.

[Brinniel]

Good god, it took me long enough to catch up with this thread...

Originally Posted by Beregond

I have a feeling Brinn could be something other than she seems - she was the first to really encourage proper discussion and then she left, almost to deflect suspicion and avoid notice all in one. I don't know about the rest of you, but I just don't know as she is who she says she is.

Originally Posted by Rune

I do not think that Brinn or Lommy has said anything of substanse. . . It is just the usual "look at me I am all serious about the game" nonsense that allways pops up, it is no more usefull than the in charachter banter, but it is less intertaining.

It would be foolish of me to assume them evil because of these comments, but it is worth taking a note about. It shows that they to some degree would like to be viewed as people who are focused on catching the evil-doers.

Do you guys really think the content of my single post was some sort of strategy? I hate to disappoint you, but I have a RL and it's more important than WW. I had already taken a sleeping pill at the time I made my post, and while I would've liked to contribute more, I also didn't want to crash on top my keyboard. I hoped to post this morning but I didn't have time, and I've been in class all day. I've had an exhausting week and while I'd like to, I simply don't have tons of energy for WW right now. I'm sorry if I sound irritable, but I am tired and I have no patience for anyone criticising me due to the lack of substance.

Anyways, I never meant to say much in my first post...I felt I should at least check in since I knew I wouldn't be around until late in the Day when half the players are sleeping. But I decided to comment on the banter because while it's entertaining, there was simply too much of it going on...and banter is an easy way for a wraith to hide.

Originally Posted by Mac

Frodo just wants to win. If the innocent side seems stronger, he'll try to avoid being killed (like everybody), if the evil side seems stronger, he might try to set himself up. I don't think he tries to be killed from toDay on.

I agree. While he may be innocent for the time being, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll continue to act that way. Frodo teeters on the brink between innocence and evil. And I don't think he necessarily has the village's best interests at heart. He'll simply do whatever is best for him.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Revealing may be the best thing Frodo can do for the village. If we know who he is, as soon as a kill is missed (Frodo is changed) we can lynch him. Also, there is no incentive for a baddie to falsely reveal as Frodo, since changing the real Frodo will get the false Frodo lynched. Maybe he could serve as a known innocent of sorts? Nevertheless, it's up to the ringbearer.

Okay, I find anyone who thinks that Frodo would even consider sacrificing himself at this early stage a bit idealistic. Whoever is Frodo signed up for this game because they want to play...it'd certainly be no fun to give up and reveal from Day 1. I'd think our Frodo would want to have more fun with the role than that. Also, once Frodo is changed, he is on the side of the wraiths. A lynching after he has changed could mean a loss for the wraiths. And why would anyone want to lose?

Originally Posted by Rune

Unless something dramaticly happens the only other people I would consider are people like Brinn that I hold grudges against

That's a silly reason to vote for someone. If anything, you shouldn't immediately vote someone you have a grudge against because your opinion on them is slanted. No, it's better to wait and give a real reason to vote for them based on posts and behaviour in the current game, and certainly not from experiences in past games. I'll be seriously disappointed in you if you choose to vote for me for that reason alone.

[Rikae]

For what it's worth, I, at least, play the role given to me, idealistic though that may be. Regardless of what side he's on, Frodo is not a werebear, out for himself. Ordos work for the village's benefit, so as long as he is one, that's the side he has to play, even if it makes things more difficult later. Don't you think I might love to assign myself the role of unofficial cobbler (in all the games I've played, I've never once been a cobbler)? Only the moddess can tell us for sure, but it seems to me like Frodo turning "cobbler" before he's been turned into a wraith isn't really playing fair.

Of course, Frodo may have good reasons to keep quiet for the time being - but if he's going to play his ordo role to the best of his ability, he might want to think about playing in such a way as to trap his possible future wraith self (who knows, maybe he's smart enough to outfox himself, and the rest of us, in the end, anyway).

[Beregond]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Do you guys really think the content of my single post was some sort of strategy? I hate to disappoint you, but I have a RL and it's more important than WW. I had already taken a sleeping pill at the time I made my post, and while I would've liked to contribute more, I also didn't want to crash on top my keyboard. I hoped to post this morning but I didn't have time, and I've been in class all day. I've had an exhausting week and while I'd like to, I simply don't have tons of energy for WW right now. I'm sorry if I sound irritable, but I am tired and I have no patience for anyone criticising me due to the lack of substance.

I was grasping for something, anything, at the time.

And still am. As a newbie I'm trying not to make the easy vote, but... I have to rely, to some extent, on the opinions of others, as I don't want to lynch one of the good guys in an effort to be different. So I'm going to wait a while yet before I make my vote.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Okay, I find anyone who thinks that Frodo would even consider sacrificing himself at this early stage a bit idealistic.

Oh you cynical Americans! Hasn't Barack Obama thought you anything yet? (rolleyes for the possible ill-conceived idealism of that phrase...)

If I were Frodo - sorry, Mr. Underhill that is - I would seriously consider revealing it toDay... well I would hope to be able to bet for myself living toMorrow to conceal it in peace for toMorrow - and I would think it not twice but like hundred times... it would be an issue to me, really. A tough one looking at the good of the village and my role in it- and the possible change of my allegiance - and how to undo it before it happens as I would be for the village before the possible turnover. I couldn't play looking at it from the point of view of "let's see if I can choose my side later".

But that's personal.

And anyway we don't know who is Mr. Underhill and that makes it hard. The revealment of your stance (with Agan's and Rikae's) makes me wonder whether we can trust this Underhill fellow anyway... whatever he says s/he is. I started this game trusting he would play on our side and took it for granted but maybe everyone is just for themselves and not for the common good?

*Could it be? Really?*

Or at least some price their individual success higher than the good of their community - and thus themselves as well? I mean what is the good of yours when your neighbours suffer? Can you really enjoy that? Are you a human any more if you can?

One more reason we should stick to socialism like Legate called for!




Coming to the bussiness then as my time runs out definitively.

It becomes between Gollum and Aganzir I think...

There were other terrible reasons but saying you make it random is the worst way of trying to ensure you don't have to stand for your vote later.

But which one?

Gollum acts almost hyperactive at times and that might suggest wolf trying to make better of his earlier submarine style being at stake.

Aganzir votes more clumsily she normally does and claims "random vote" whilst giving some really bad half-excuses for her vote...


++ Gollum

In a way Agan's vote looks more dishonest than Gollum's as her reasons are soo bad and in general her vote is more forced than Gollum's and one should think she would be able to do it better ehatever her role is. But that's just the point: were she a ringwraith she would have been more cunning and careful.

So Gollum looks to me the more promising choice. He has been unexpectedly active and still his posts are mostly devoid of substance and mainly banter when they are not concerned of him trying to paint himself looking good or "correct" any bad ideas about him, his vote is painted as to be a totally random (guilt! guilt! guilt!) & at times his posts are too carefully construed to give an impression of innocense.

ADD: And he's careful enough not to offence anyone or suspect them in a way that might create a backlash...


Greenie -> Gollum
Lommy -> Aganzir
Gollum -> Brinn
Aganzir -> Lari
Legate -> Mac
Shasta -> Lommy
Nogrod -> Gollum (Gollum2, Lommy1, Mac1, Lari1, Brinn1, Agan1)


Good night!

[Nogrod]

I think this Day has not been in vain so far as there are a few promising leads already. So good job people!

But there's clearly not enough for me to go for a lynch for these louder ones as yet. So my votelist will still be:

Lariren Shadow
Shastanis Althreduin
Gollum the Great
satansaloser2005

They have basically been just in-character and there's not much help in their posts to catch a ringwraith. So with the logic of columnist Michael Kelly: as they are not helping us they're helping the other party.

Lari was like that the game before (her first) and she was a wolf there. So why should we believe her thisd time if she's just trying the same card - even if she really had timetable -problems as well? Then again it would be a little improbable she would start her WW-career with being a baddie twice... Interestingly enough Mira has come to argue for her I think twice already...

Shasta has been cloaked by his role entirely. There's nothing he has said but he has made a presence in the first part of the game. Of these I still think Shasta the most innocent-looking from an imagined premise that he has had no time to come online after his burst of posting early on the Day.

Gollum looks like an "easy lynch" (like Rune and I think some others as well have alrerady commented) and the question just remains whether that is true or is he once again playing the card that is assumed from his behaviour? Somehow I'm a bit baffled about his activity and tone toDay. Like in his post #90 he says first of Menel and then of Legate and me that "they stay". Like it was under his decision who lives or dies (and not a democratic vote) - and the only one to think that way is the ringwraith's way of thinking... And well many other things, like his continued insistence to set right things said about him and the fervour by which he claims to be the number one poster while actually providing very little indeed but being friendly - which sure is the most wolvish trait there is...

Sally then looks like Sally. No thoughts whatsoever she's given on this Day1. Just fun and banter. And yes she's cute and fine and funny... but she's that as a wolf as well... and she's intelligent enough to calculate her vote whilst being ignored by others...

I need to have a pipeful before I vote.

[Mirandir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Lari was like that the game before (her first) and she was a wolf there. So why should we believe her thisd time if she's just trying the same card - even if she really had timetable -problems as well? Then again it would be a little improbable she would start her WW-career with being a baddie twice... Interestingly enough Mira has come to argue for her I think twice already...

Not to further the idea that Lari and I are aligned, but I have a tendency to play devil's advocate. You'll notice that I also came to Mac's defense earlier in the Day. No need to lynch without looking at all sides of the issue.