T-I-G LVI: Panic at the Prancing Pony

[Thinlómien]

Rikae, I agree. Fea looks rather fernyish, but not like a wraith. (Although, I have to add that an ordo Fea has been known to act really weirdly. Maybe she'll show up and explain.) But whatever, unless she looks more innocent toDay, lynching her might be a good back up plan. (But I'm worried of it becoming the official back up plan everybody can bring up and avoid naming any actual wraith suspects. )

edit: xed with Legate's novel

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

edit: xed with Legate's novel

Yes, well, what do you expect. Anyway, don't expect from me to reply on anything, if anybody asks me anything, for the few following hours. You will have to wait. I will leave for a few hours now, I'll see if I can post commenting on at least some events from yesterDay before I leave, but then I will be back and finish it. Should not take THAT long... so, in some four or five hours, you should get me here "up-to-date" and ready to post in the currently running discussion

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate

Sally - 193: I don't like that either:

Anybody cares to tell me what is so suspicious about Brinn, except the fact that she's been a succesful wolf in some of the past games?

Actually, my problem with that quote is not that she suspects Brinn on silly grounds, but that it looks very much like something someone could say about a fellow wolf. It screams that to me, in fact. (But of course, my reading might be a bit biased since I suspect Brinn and don't find sally too innocent either.... getting caught up in conspiracy theories again? *remembers Nog's hobbit game*)

PS. Mirandir is a she.


edit: xed with Legate - well, you're right, I didn't expect anything else.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, now I have to leave for a few hours, and I really didn't get very far (somebody's been posting horribly long posts yesterDay... how can people do such things? ). Anyway, just for now:

Shasta's death: My opinion on why he was killed is indeed most likely no trails left. He really didn't post anything of substance. I don't think much Seerishness-supecting was involved, although it is possible.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Try what? How did I seem to suggest xe should stay put & and then change my mind? I don't think I ever reached any conclusion when talking about the RB. Hmm oh yes I actually did. But I simply don't get what you're aiming at.

I meant to say, in other words (if we presumed you were a Wolf): Perhaps you were doing that (supporting the idea that Frodo could reveal) in order for him to reveal himself, or give hints, so that you may target him. That was the basic idea of it. Then, when others were suggesting Frodo not to do that, you have backed away a bit, so as not to be too suspicious if it became the general opinion that Frodo trying to give hints may be dangerous for the village. (All of this is now relativised anyway by what you said later, or what others said later about Frodo too, and your opinion on Frodo wishing to become a Wolf in the first place.)

Okay, but now I have to leave. Will be back and continue on my comments. (In other words, expect some long post from me again. Or perhaps, I may try to divide it into a few shorter ones... but that will depend. We'll see. Or you can tell your opinion on that meanwhile, if you prefer one long or several... long as well, but not as long as it would be if it was just one

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Perhaps you were doing that (supporting the idea that Frodo could reveal) in order for him to reveal himself, or give hints, so that you may target him.

But I never supported xyr revealing! Well yes it would make things easier but it would also be an unfair thing to ask.
Besides what would a wolf gain from Frodo revealing? A lot headache.

Originally Posted by Legate

Then, when others were suggesting Frodo not to do that, you have backed away a bit, so as not to be too suspicious if it became the general opinion that Frodo trying to give hints may be dangerous for the village.

How would disagreeing be suspicious?

Sorry I'm not trying to be difficult, I just have no idea what you're talking about.

[Lariren Shadow]

All right, I get it, my vote seems fishy(and no, I'm really not a Pisces, no where close).

However, I pretty much voted for the same person two days in a row. And the only reason was I still didn't have much to go on from Day 2. I thought in my mind that it would have been interesting to make the person who's character is like the ranger to be a wolf/wraith. Hence my voting.

As for the rest: are we sure that Nog's death wasn't in some way a way to implicate Fea? Can we really rule out a possible innocent Fea and really good wolves/wraiths? It would be kind of smart of them too. They wouldn't get blamed for killing off a very dangerous innocent, the village would just lynch her and be done with it.

This is not saying that we shouldn't look at her. Clearly that would be stupid but this is a possiblity no one mentioned. Last game she was lynched the same Day and was a wolf. But she was also more open about her wolfyness.

As for Mira, it is her first game. But it's also Day 3 and she is clearly fair game.

As for the comments between Lommy and Agan, while obviously it's between you two and I shouldn't read more into than a possible friend's spat(I mean, I could also say the same things about Mira and Fea, considering I know them in real life too) but there whole thing would be a good cover up if they were both wolves/wraiths. Keep up the pretense that they are not working together and such. I would have to look through their posts again, but its a good way to throw us all off their trail.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

What was I thinking of?

I was thinking that Fea is fun to have in the game and that I did not suspect her, so I wanted to vote for Mac or Agan and later Agan or Durelin. Granted. . .Fea had not recived any votes, but it was a cause that seemed to gain support and resembled what had happened on day 1.
So I decided to cast my vote for Durelin in order to secure Fea's further participation in the game. . .

Obviously the ending was rather hectic and far from desirable, but I play for the fun of the game and to win. . . Obviously I would not have voted for Durelin if I had thought Fea to be evil.

I might have mis-interpritated the situation and overreacted, but that is what happens.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But I never supported xyr revealing! Well yes it would make things easier but it would also be an unfair thing to ask.
Besides what would a wolf gain from Frodo revealing? A lot headache.

Okay, sorry, wrong terminology. What I had in mind, and what we were discussing back on that Day from the beginning, was whether Frodo should be silent or try to give hints about his identity. That was the point, that's what I meant by "revealing" here (really, I used completely wrong word here, sorry for that).

How would disagreeing be suspicious?

Well, like, if all people shared my opinion, i.e. that Frodo should stay put and not give any hints at all, and if everybody agreed on that (and it seemed that many were starting to agree) and they would all think like I do (i.e. if I say it in a bit exaggerating way: that Frodo giving any hints is a suicide for him, resp. "wolficide"), you could seem suspicious if you proposed the other opinion, wouldn't you? So that's basically what I meant (by this thing whose basis I said several Days ago ).

Anyway, I see the mass-posting time is coming, so I'm off to finish reading the thread. Hope to be able to join you people in the "present" in a few hours at most.

[Nerwen]

I spent too long on this, and I'm not sure it's all that useful. But here it is anyway:

Note: only relevant sections are quoted/cited.

Part One: La-la-la-I'm-Not-Listening

#324.Nogrod makes a case on Durelin based on her Ranger-like IC posting at start of Day One.

#325.

Originally Posted by Rikae

6) It was an IC post. And, lo and behold, Durelin's character is:
"Durelin - Big person dark, mysterious, hooded and cloaked figure".

A joke, no more significant than in that long-ago game when someone chose "weaver" as his occupation. That's how I took it, that's how I'm pretty sure everybody took it (including the wraiths), and that's how I suspect Dury expected it to be taken.

#329, #332, #347. Greenie, Lommy and Mac all point out that Nogrod's case doesn't make sense.

#348. Nogrod continues to find Durelin evil; has missed the point about her posting IC.

#363. Durelin posts IC.

#366.Durelin lists people who “bother" her (Brinn, me, Rikae, Nogrod and Fea) for various reasons.

#367. Fea complains about Durelin's IC posting.

#368. More IC posting from Durelin. This is perverse of her and probably helped get her killed. Note, however, that she only posted a few sentences.

#371.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I'm very tempted to vote Dury as I don't know what she's playing at. I feel like the Ranger wouldn't make a point of making herself wraith-bait.

#372. Mirandir agrees with Fea.

#373. Lari puts forward the theory that Kitanna would have made Durelin's hooded and cloaked character a wraith rather than a ranger.

#374. Nogrod agree with Fea that Dury and Rikae are not behaving like innocents.

#375.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Fea, you seem off to me. You go back and forth between a knowing hush-hush to "we should talk about all the roles", and you're nearly as jumpy as Nogrod when it comes to conspiracy theories. Overall you're being rather boring, especially for you.

#377.

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

It's occurred to me that I want to sacrifice a fellow wolf every time I play an evil role. But there never seems to be any support from my colleagues...

++Durelin

Support my vote if you want.

If Durelin had turned out to be a wolf... er, wraith, I'd have called that the worst slip ever. As it is, I don't know what she meant.

#378.Lari speculates that Durelin could be Evil Frodo, trying to get the wraiths to kill him at Night.

#379.

Originally Posted by Durelin

If you think I'm a suicidal baddy (who could have easily "flown under the radar" as many put it), so be it. You all deserved more of my foolishness after being so foolish yourselves, thinking my character-role was anything else.

#382.Nogrod says he is a bit reluctant to lynch Durelin, but might still do it. He asks if there are enough people to lynch Fea.

Part Two: The Fea Fan-Club to the Rescue!

And this is where it gets even weirder. Rune, Lari and possibly Mira act as though they have to save Fea from the lynch mob, even though she has no votes, and I think Nog's was the first mention of lynching her.

#384.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Stop this nonsense!

Fea is just like an independent candidate, too good to be voted for!

#387.

Originally Posted by Lariren Shadow

So where did this "lynch Fea" thing come into play? Not that I'm defending her, it just seems to be, well, really spontanious and not right. And I can't spell.

#392. Durelin discusses Day One votes. Doesn't like Brinniel's, Nerwen's, A Little Green's, Sally's, or Fea's.

#393.

Originally Posted by Mirandir

I love it when we decide to randomly lynch Fea! *throws a party*

#394. Brinn comments that she has been suspecting Fea all day.

#395.(replying to Durelin)

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

You're talking yesterday, obviously, since tonight my goal was actually to get you killed...

#396. Beregond comments that he "took the ranger comment as nothing but IC".

#397.Rune says he feels like lynching Agan or Durelin.

#398.(replying to Mirandir's comment at #393).

Originally Posted by Nogrod

WE might do it for a reason as well...

#400.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Did I mention that I really do not want Fea to die. . . . ?

#402.Lari votes Durelin: "I know its IC voting, but part of me thinks that putting her as a wolf would have been genius."

#403.Fea says Durelin should be posting content, not just in character narration.

#405.Rune votes Durelin (no reason given– apparently to save Fea).

#406. Mirandir votes Durelin: "Posting IC 40 minutes before deadline seems like a strange move, and it makes me very suspicious."

#407. Brinn votes Fea.

#409. Mac votes Durelin (no reason given).

#410.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I have no really good explanation for voting Durlein other than she seem slightly off. . .and that I really want to keep fea in the game.

#412. Durelin votes Mac.

#413. Brinniel say she does not like "this Durelin bandwagon".

#415. Nogrod votes Durelin.

Comments: Mac's vote is probably self defence, as I think he had two or three votes himself at that point. The reasons for the other votes boil down to: "we must save Fea!" and "Durelin's pretending to be the Ranger! Get her!"

Nogrod (known innocent) started the case on Dury, Fea seized on it, and Lari and Mira followed Fea, and then Rune joined in when the idea of lynching Fea came up.

Early in the piece, everyone was told that Durelin was simply playing a character she had described before the roles were given out. They... well, basically, they just didn't care. (Lari's theory involved a plot by Kitanna.)

Durelin did contribute to her downfall a bit by going on with the IC posting... but there were actually only a couple of posts like that, and she made other comments.

Conclusion: Fea is probably evil, and seems to have led the lynch-mob, but is more likely Ferny than a wraith. (Although she might be a wraith pretending to be Ferny, in the hope that the Seer won't dream her, or we won't bother lynching her, or something.)

I still can't tell whether Lari and Mira are acting more like manipulated newbies or like newbie wolves. And I have no idea what Rune was thinking of, except that he did mention he was drunk.

So... yeah. That was weird.

EDIT: fixed quotes.
EDIT2: paraphrased for easier reading. X'd with lots of people.
EDIT3:fixed bolding.

[Macalaure]

First I think I should explain my commentless vote yesterDay. At some point yesterDay I was no longer able to think and make cases against who I would prefer to lynch. I just kept on reading along and see what I would have to do to survive. Then, about 15 minutes before the deadline, the posts were coming so quick that I was not able to catch up anymore and barely remembered in the last minute that I still had to vote. I did not suspect Durelin, but I also didn't think that she was gifted, so she was the logical choice.

Now, with a wake mind, what the ?? was that yesterDay?

--The madness seems to have started just after my last real post, when Durelin reappeared and acted weirdly.
--Fea jumps on her for IC posting, which is fair, but what she makes out of that later is unreasonable. #371 does not strike me as something an innocent would have posted. It looks as if she realised that, with all the talk about Durelin that Nogrod initiated, Durelin would make a good bandwaggon, if set up properly.
--Mirandir goes with Fea immediately. Lariren's following list has Durelin as neutral. Nogrod gives some points, Rune a list of unrelated comments.
--Fea votes Durelin.
--Lariren picks up on Nogrod's comments. Brinn talks about her suspicions, crossing with the approaching Durelin-waggon. Nogrod is reluctant to vote Durelin and considers Fea.
--Rune defends her immediately - and fiercely, considering that only one person mentions the idea. Menel doesn't know what's going on and Rikae rants a little bit. Lariren defends Fea right away, too. The way #387 is phrased is suspicious ("not that I'm defending her"). After some points of Durelin, Mirandir jokes about lynching Fea randomly, which of course is a defense in disguise. Brinn states that she was suspicious of Fea before already. Beregond makes a long list a few minutes before deadline (make those earlier: nobody will be able to read them at this point).
--Rune states he'd like to lynch Aganzir or Durelin. Nogrod restates that he'd have reasons to lynch Fea and Rune defends her again.
--Lariren votes Durelin, and this vote really looks like either an ordo that lets herself be way to much influenced by a recently started bandwaggon, or a baddie following another baddies lead.
--Nogrod is confused and Rune votes Durelin, as does Mirandir. Rune's vote is commentless, but goes in line with previous comments. Mirandir's vote looks like Lari's.
--Brinn votes Fea and complains. I vote Durelin.
--Rune chips in a comment about Durelin, his only on why she is suspicious to him, and it looks as bad as Mirandir's and Lari's.
--Durelin votes me and Brinn complains some more, a bit late, if you ask me.
--Nogrod votes past the deadline and Beregond shows sense.
--Rune adds more nonsense about saving Fea and Brinn criticises him duly.

And half of this happened in 10 minutes....

Fea looks a bit like an evil mastermind. She puts the bandwaggon on its rails and does not hesitate about it one second, despite very questionable grounds.
Mirandir and Lari - synchronised werewolfing? They both make a list shortly before things get rolling, and neither suspects Durelin. They both defend Fea, they both change their minds on Durelin, they both make a very similar vote post. It is inconceivable that this was planned, so not both of them are wraiths. A wraith-cobbler combo is possible. Newbieness exonerates Mirandir a little, but Lari gets no such bonus anymore.
Rune's desire to save Fea is out of proportion. Mirandir and Lari are her RL friends, so it's more understandable. I thought that maybe Rune was the seer and dreamt of Fea, but no way would a seer risk himself when his innocent dream is not challenged seriously, which Fea wasn't. Also, if he wanted to save Fea, why go after Durelin? Even if he knew about Fea's innocence, he must've realised that the reasons against Durelin were ridiculous. I remember that he stated something about "experienced players should know better". He is more than experienced enough to know that you lynch the people who act suspicious, not the people who act weird. Stupid lynches like that happen way to often. I suspect that Rune and Fea are companions.
Rikae and especially Brinn take the role of the voice of reason. I believe they are innocent. They could be smart wraiths, but for now, I don't think so.

Alright, and now I have some free memory for other people's comments today, as well as the earlier happenings yesterday, and why in Arda the wraiths chose Nogrod.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Actually, now that you mention it, I must say that suggestion of Brinn's was a bit weird. It does not make much sense - I wonder if the explanation is that Brinn was too tired when she was posting or that she's a baddie trying to mislead us?

Well yes, I was tired...after all it was 4am. But I don't think my suggestion was that weird. I agree your ranger suggestion is better though. But what makes you so sure the wraiths didn't think he was Frodo?

Originally Posted by Aganzir

However what makes you think they thought he was Frodo? Personally I didn't see anything that would have indicated it, apart from him commenting on a post by only saying Precious! on day one.

I didn't see anything in particular that would indicate it either, but it's possible the wraiths did. For one thing, I'm not sure there's even a specific way on how Frodo would act; I think it would partly depend on whether Frodo would rather be turned or lynched.

EDIT: X-ed with Lari and Mac

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I still can't tell whether Lari and Mira are acting more like manipulated newbies or like newbie wolves.

Well, I was a newbie wolf last game(and this is clearly not going to help my case) but I played it differently.

Part of my suspicion was also that she was still in character posting when pretty much everyone else had stopped.

Now if we were to try to lynch Fea toDay, I'd be more for it than anyone else(unless maybe Mac or Rikae because, well, Mac has been sort of saved twice now and some of Rikae's posts are making me wonder).

[Lariren Shadow]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Lariren's following list has Durelin as neutral.

Did I? I didn't really mean for it to be neutral sounding. I pretty much didn't have that many others to go on. Hence my vote.