Middle-earth Bad Popularity Cup - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tuor in Gondolin · 02-02-2009, 06:10 PM

Smaug-7
Drauglin-2

Old Man Willow vs. Master of Laketown

In their own ways both were survivors. The Master
not only efficiently ran his town, and was correct in
doubts about the wisdom of riling the status quo
by provoking Smaug, but then made out rather well
with the worm's treasure until the tragic end of this
statesman. Had he survived mayhap his descendants
would have been valued bureaucrats in Eriador and
Rhovannion.

As for Old Man Willow the question is how mobile
(and evil) were he and his followers. Could they have
skittered all the way to Fangorn, in say, 500 years?

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-02-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

Had he survived mayhap his descendants
would have been valued bureaucrats in Eriador and
Rhovannion.

Well, who knows whether his descendants actually were not there and living a peaceful or less peaceful life, whatever may have happened to the Master himself.

However, with all due respect to Old Man, I vote the old man.

++Master of Laketown

He was an interesting character. And only recently, I realised he was really the only known open supporter of democracy in Middle-Earth! Now come on, that was a great move from royalistic writer like the Prof. - I can well imagine him making a draft of the Master's character, thinking "He is a negative character... what character traits will I give to him? He will be greedy, cowardish, and... hmm... a democrate!"

Quote:

"King Bard! King Bard!" they shouted; but the Master ground his chattering teeth.
"Girion was lord of Dale, not king of Esgaroth," he said. "In the Laketown we have always elected masters from among the old and wise..."

The impersonation of all evil... fantastic!

Morthoron · 02-02-2009, 07:55 PM

++Old Man Willow

The Master of Laketown was a conniving and venal bureaucrat (most likely a proto-Republican). There is nothing likeable or endearing in a thieving politician (and really, haven't we had enough of those in our governments currently?).

Old Man Willow, on the other hand, is wonderfully cranky and curmudgeonly, and would quote George Bernard Shaw if he could speak.

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-03-2009, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morthoron

The Master of Laketown was a conniving and venal bureaucrat (most likely a proto-Republican). There is nothing likeable or endearing in a thieving politician (and really, haven't we had enough of those in our governments currently?).

Well, but Morth, that's just what is so great about him! He was the primeval politician, the first one, uncorrupted yet by the centuries of politicians existing before him... he was the first, "virgin politician", and it was all up to him, how he chooses to manifest his corrupted ways! I mean to say, there was no set thing for him what should a corrupt politician look like, and he managed to do it all by himself! Isn't it great?

Thinlómien · 02-03-2009, 05:21 AM

++Old Man Willow

I couldn't vote the Master of Laketown for personal reasons, suffice to say that his youngest son was a jerk.

Tuor in Gondolin · 02-03-2009, 08:00 AM

A difficult choice, and surprisingly, both in
some ways are the most "sympathetic" of
the rogues in this gallery. Old Man Willow
and his chums have been harassed, attacked,
and destroyed for centuries with their patrimony
drastically reduced- more then any by relatives
of the very people going through his forest remnant.

And The Master (related to Dr. Who's
old nemesis?

) while he was the teensiest bit corrupt,
did a good job seeing to the economic and political
health of Laketown (including solid Laketown/elf relations).

So since I'm in a state that is going increasingly blue
I think I'll go for the candidate who (with all his flaws)
is more attuned to vox populi .

+ + The Master Of Laketown

Groin Redbeard · 02-03-2009, 10:36 AM

++The Master of Laketown

Old Man Willow just doesn't have enough substance. The Master of Laketown actually talks!

P.S. Why was The Master of Laketown (we have got to abbreviate that name) put in the evil category? Although he was conniving and corrupt, I never considered him to be evil. Speaking of evil, why isn't Thranduil on the list?

02-02-2009, 06:10 PM	#1
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	Smaug-7 Drauglin-2 Old Man Willow vs. Master of Laketown In their own ways both were survivors. The Master not only efficiently ran his town, and was correct in doubts about the wisdom of riling the status quo by provoking Smaug, but then made out rather well with the worm's treasure until the tragic end of this statesman. Had he survived mayhap his descendants would have been valued bureaucrats in Eriador and Rhovannion. As for Old Man Willow the question is how mobile (and evil) were he and his followers. Could they have skittered all the way to Fangorn, in say, 500 years? __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.'

02-02-2009, 07:55 PM	#3
Morthoron Curmudgeonly Wordwraith Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits Posts: 2,515	++Old Man Willow The Master of Laketown was a conniving and venal bureaucrat (most likely a proto-Republican). There is nothing likeable or endearing in a thieving politician (and really, haven't we had enough of those in our governments currently?). Old Man Willow, on the other hand, is wonderfully cranky and curmudgeonly, and would quote George Bernard Shaw if he could speak. __________________ And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

02-03-2009, 05:21 AM	#5
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	++Old Man Willow I couldn't vote the Master of Laketown for personal reasons, suffice to say that his youngest son was a jerk. __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

02-03-2009, 08:00 AM	#6
Tuor in Gondolin Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Southeast Pennsylvania Posts: 3,651	A difficult choice, and surprisingly, both in some ways are the most "sympathetic" of the rogues in this gallery. Old Man Willow and his chums have been harassed, attacked, and destroyed for centuries with their patrimony drastically reduced- more then any by relatives of the very people going through his forest remnant. And The Master (related to Dr. Who's old nemesis? ) while he was the teensiest bit corrupt, did a good job seeing to the economic and political health of Laketown (including solid Laketown/elf relations). So since I'm in a state that is going increasingly blue I think I'll go for the candidate who (with all his flaws) is more attuned to vox populi . + + The Master Of Laketown __________________ The poster formerly known as Tuor of Gondolin. Walking To Rivendell and beyond 12,555 miles passed Nt./Day 5: Pass the beacon on Nardol, the 'Fire Hill.' Last edited by Tuor in Gondolin; 02-03-2009 at 12:39 PM.

02-03-2009, 10:36 AM	#7
Groin Redbeard Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Facing the world's troubles with Christ's hope! Posts: 1,635	++The Master of Laketown Old Man Willow just doesn't have enough substance. The Master of Laketown actually talks! P.S. Why was The Master of Laketown (we have got to abbreviate that name) put in the evil category? Although he was conniving and corrupt, I never considered him to be evil. Speaking of evil, why isn't Thranduil on the list? __________________ I heard the bells on Christmas Day. Their old, familiar carols play. And wild and sweet the words repeatof peace on earth, good-will to men! ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow Last edited by Groin Redbeard; 02-03-2009 at 10:41 AM.