Fantasy

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by davem

The problem here is this Aunt Sally you keep setting up, in order to knock down & thus feel you have won the argument. I am not suggesting that Tolkien should have have depicted death in battle in the way you accuse me of. I am stating that Tolkien's depiction of death in battle is not true.

Hmmm...yes, 'not true'. A corporeal Immortal Evil walking the earth in black array with a magic ring he can't manage to keep hold of is not true. Elves, Dwarves and Hobbits are not true either. There perhaps is the subtle disconnect were are having in this conversation. I always considered The Lord of the Rings to be a fantasy -- marvelously detailed and endearing, but a fantasy nonetheless. I am somehow able to divorce the fantasy from reality; other are not, obviously.

But my last point, Auntie Sal (where that came from, I have no idea), is that the lack of sex, mention of sex, or even allusion to sex is not true in a real sense either. For instance, there are no blatant rapes in Lord of the Rings, and one would think that the vengeful Dunlenders' burning of the Westfold would include some rapine along with the pillaging. The sack of Minas Tirith should have mirrored the bestial sack of Rome by Charles V's troops in 1527. Of course, such rape should be described if one seeks a 'real testament' of war, shouldn't it? War would not be true without massacres of innocents, disembowlments and brutal interrogations, but some good ol' graphic rape scenes should be required as well (the history of war, particularly medieval war and earlier, is chock full of 'em).

Originally Posted by davem

But there is also a third aspect - people get maimed. They lose limbs, they die slowly & in agony. They may freeze to death overnight even if not mortally wounded (as at Kineton Fight during the English Civil War, or at Towton). They may just be left to die because there's no-one to treat them, or because they are not considered to be worth saving. Some die because they run away in terror & get cut down by their own side (Towon again). After the battle there has to be a clear up & burial - or the bodies rot & spread disease. Oh, & in battle people lose it when the adrenalin is flowing & do terrible & unecessary things to the foe.

Again, I demand brutal rape scenes as well. A war is not a real war without callous disregard for the bodies of the enemy's women-folk. And after the rapes, the dragging off of the women and children as slaves to live miserable lives at the hands of their victorious masters. Throw in some cannibalism as well, particularly during siege scenes where the besieged have already eaten the dogs, horses and rats. Dig up the corpses, boys, supper's ready!

I am not being flippant here, just asking the same questions you are. Where exactly do you wish to cut off the depictment of reality in a 'fantasy' book meant for a wide demographic and not just for adults, davem? Must we stop at how an axe pierces a helm, or how a soldier with bloody stumps helps a disemboweled comrade gather up his intestines? Why not bowel movements? Sex scenes? How about child pornography?

How ugly does the story need to get to please you? And would it serve the story any better than its original presentation?

Originally Posted by davem

Have a look at the Books page & see how many views this topic has garnered so far in comparison to the other discussions.....

But davem, the amount of views this topic has garnered has nothing to do with the subject matter. No, it is because of our witty repartee and our stellar proficiency in grammar and syntax.