Middle-earth Bad Popularity Cup

[Durelin]

++The Great Goblin

I've always liked the goblins, especially as portrayed in The Hobbit (if they're really portrayed anywhere else). They're more interesting than other orcs to me, as they are more independent. And I like how they're kinda buddy-buddy with the wargs, without the wargs being subject to them. They also, from what I remember, seem to be possible to reason with. They seem to have protocols.

I like Bert, Tom, and Bill plenty, but...meh, there's three of them.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I think he was always the mere nobody standing for a role there had to be. A goblin king living under the mountains could have been a formidable character but GG is not.

Well, they're goblins...in The Hobbit, a children's story...they have to be a little silly and thus their leader largely incompetent...to avoid gruesome torture and death scenes and such... As if Bert, Tom, and Bill are especially formidable.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Durelin

And I like how they're kinda buddy-buddy with the wargs, without the wargs being subject to them. They also, from what I remember, seem to be possible to reason with. They seem to have protocols.

Ah yes, true. Actually, it looked like that under some circumstances, Thoring could have talked himself out of the situation... true. A pity, really. Hmm, I should have re-read that before voting. Perhaps I would have reconsidered. Well, but still. William is a nice guy.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

William-6 The Great Goblin-1

Next: Gorbag vs. Shagrat
A tragic brother against brother (sort of) struggle, perhaps
somewhere between Damon and Pythias and Cain and Abel,
okay, probably the latter.
To hear what they might well select as their theme song
try a Google search for

Two heads are better than
one Power Tool

. (I can't post directly an http link,
due no doubt to my very limited computer savvy. I could get
links on my old PC but not with my new laptop).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Now, I think this match could at last be interesting, and I am really interested in seeing the preferrences people have.

For me, it is Gorbag, because... I just like him. To me, he seems a bit nicer, a bit more clever, in some way, he is more "independant" (though Shagrat is also, but in his own, rather nasty way). I mean, Gorbag looks like more of a relaxed-type guy to me. And he has far cooler coat of arms, dwells in a far cooler place (and probably has a regular talk to the Nazgul).

And, he was the only known Orc with an apparent interest in philosophy of metaphysics. Hmm, perhaps he would have became a good philosopher, had he had the time and not be too burdened by his duties as a commander (or again, if he was "free", then if he had enough other Orcs to take care of supplying the food and all necessary things... hmm, now where I have heard this...). Or he had metaphysics as his hobby. (Stimulated, no doubt, by his living is such a proximity to the Ringwraith - as it is even implied by the text itself.)

++Gorbag

I really disliked Shagrat in the beginning, to be honest, although in the end, nowadays I don't mind him anymore, in fact, I could perhaps sort of like him as well. But Gorbag is still far in the lead.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

And these two, in their interactions and
allusions, and their own succoming to the
power of the Ring- not unlike Boromir and
Frodo, et. al.- come closest to making Orcs
"human."

An example of their "humanness":

'You should try being up here with Shelob for
company,' said Shagrat.
'I'd like to try somewhere where there's none of 'em.
But the war's on now, and when that's over things may
be easier.'
It's going well, they say.'
'They would,' grunted Gorbag. We'll see. But anyway,
if it does go well, there should be a lot more room. What
d'you say?- if we get a chance, you and me'll slip off and
set up somewhere on our own with a few trusty lads,
somewhere where there's good loot nice and handy, and
no big bosses.'
'Ah!" said Shagrat. 'Like old times.'

[Thinlómien]

++Shagrat

He always struck me as.. well... more sneaky and less of the Schwarzenegger-type. Although, Gorbag might even be smarter after all, but Shagrat has the "home ground" so he does look like the smart expert. I don't know, it's maybe the same as that I always liked Grishnákh more than Uglúk, although Uglúk is the one more "worthy" of liking of those two.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

He always struck me as.. well... more sneaky and less of the Schwarzenegger-type. Although, Gorbag might even be smarter after all, but Shagrat has the "home ground" so he does look like the smart expert. I don't know, it's maybe the same as that I always liked Grishnákh more than Uglúk, although Uglúk is the one more "worthy" of liking of those two.

Great! I always had it the other way around. And (as I just now re-read it), Shagrat looks more like an expert in the things concerning Shelob etc., but when it comes to reasoning, Gorbag is more clever - like, in this sense that he suspects this "great Elven warrior" and puts two and two together, knowing that if Frodo was alone, he would have been eaten already.